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The issue is for everyone to be treated equally, everyone must be treated differently.

A "Living wage" for a 14 year old, a single 27 year old, a married 40 year old with wife and 3 kids, a single 30 year old with 4 kids all have different costs to be fulfilled. There is no single wage which can allow all of those scenarios to 'LIVE' to the standards discussed.

The issue then becomes 'well tax credits address the disparities and wellfare covers the kids...' Except when it doesn't... And then 'how many jobs?' should someone be expected to do? Should that be enforced by the government?

And then where does skill come in? If a single person with 3 kids needs 52k a year to 'live' in a particular area, should she be guaranteed to earn a wage which will pay 52k a year for 40 hours a week? Does that mean someone who does the exact same job as her but is single and only needs 23K a year, should he get a reduced wage? Or does everyone make the wage for the most costly lifestyle or family situation in the area?

It would have to boil down that the government would need to confiscate allw ages, give everyone a scientifically designed 'allowance' based upon their life needs, pay for 'critical costs' like healthcare and food before an employee gets a dime, and then everyone in society works for ' added value'. So your paycheck is simply funmoney over your socially alloted allowance for your work.

So everyone gets their allowance, and jobs would then pay a 'wage' on top of that allowance. So I wouldn't make 15$ an hour, I would make <my allowance for my life situation and fundamental needs> + 3.50 an hour.

Sounds cool to me... I would like to be treated like a perpetual teenager mowing my parents lawn for the rest of my life and have no worries about health care, retirement, taxes and not worry if I piss my money away that I won't eat or be homeless.

Do you trust anyone to run this system? I don't.

 Swastakowey wrote:
In NZ
A full time worker of 18+ should be able to rent a living space, have food, internet, power and have enough to travel at least. A part time worker can seek out help from the government and live with other people until their situation improves. I havent lived with other people, but its common for teens to share a house until they can move on, and after living with others they generally do move on.

What constitutes a 'living space'? In my area, a 1 bedroom efficiency apartment is 1700$ a month minimum. You can go on craigslist and rent a room in a house for maybe 400$. Do people have the god-given right to live alone? I alss know within the same state, you can rent a whole 3 bedroom house for 600$ a month, so a state wide 'minimum' would not take in account the disparity.

How much does someone 'deserve' for food? And how much should someone be given in order to prepare and store said food? Stoves, Fridges, cooking tools all cost money.

Internet? Why not throw Cell phone on that too? You can go to public buildings for internet.

Power? How much is 'enough power'? What if someone lives in a living space which costs 200$ a month to heat in the winter due to the bad insulation while someone else pays 45$ a month? What about people who leave the lights on? how much is enough for power?

Travel? Travel? People have a right to travel? You mean commute to work? or go to Disneyworld because vacation is a god given right?

There are so many variables which makes it impossible to determine a single correct metric on what people should have the 'right' to be given as a wage, if such a thing even exists in this illusion of civilization we have where depending where on the planet you are standing determines so much about your situation. There is no single answer, and for everyone to be treated FAIR everyone needs to be treated differently, and humans (along with dogs and primates) will rebel at a fundamental level about inequity, even in the name of helping everyone along.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:



I include internet/phone in "minimum" because of the simple fact that so many employers use an almost exclusively online application process, and so much of that business is done online that computers/laptops have become a near necessity.

And libraries and their facilities are for.....what then?

For the homeless to sinkwash their junk and go BM?