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So I've been an avid 40k player for over a year now and my gaming group is finally breaking into WHFB the only problem I'm having right now is picking an army to play

The armies I've been looking at most have been Vampire counts, and dark elves.
The other armies that have shown some promise for me have been tomb kings, wood elves, and skaven,

In 40k I play Dark eldar and orks.

The reason ive been looking at vampire counts is because it is everything fantasy has that 40k doesn't namely it's 100% magic and melee. Dark elves seem to be the obvious choice since they are the dark eldar's fantasy counterpart but they don't seem to play the same and the lore doesn't match up right and that feels a little alien to me.

Tomb kings seem cool from what I gathered they play similarly to counts only with less reliance on generals / characters and much faster and they also have some shooting
Wood elves seem like another good choice since they play most similarly to dark eldar due to all of the poisoned shots and requiring proper maneuvering also everything seems to point to them saying they are the fastest army in the game exactly like dark eldar
Skaven also seem fun but I don't really know anything about them and one of the reasons I was considering them is because I can buy all of the starter box models off of a friend for cheap

I know next to nothing about the game or anything I just said any insight would be appreciated

OK generic 100% best army is: The one you like the look of. Fantasy, unlike 40k, mostly requires a painted army. There's no rule but the vast majority of fantasy tournaments will not let you use unpainted models. (3color + base minimum). You will be spending a lot of time on the models, make sure you like them. Do not go with the army you think is good. Fantasy is much more about playing than list building. You can bring the top tire WoC or DE build & I know several players who can stomp that with Beastmen or Brettonia if you don't play it right. Look at the swap shop. You see 40k FOTM being traded off almost every month for the new one, rarely do you see that with fantasy. You will be spending TONS of time with these models make sure you like them.


I'd say do Dark elves unless you are 100% sure you want to play undead legions. (Basically TK & VC combined. The issue with undead is having an unbreakable, unstable, immune to psychology army that can regrow wounds means you don't really learn a good chunk of the game.

I can go into a combat expecting to lose by 5 & be fine. Any other army & that is suicide. I don't care about fear, or panic, or breaking. This makes moving out of undead very difficult as EVERYTHING changes. It is much easier to move into an undead army than out of one.

Also TK? Fast? lol someone is lying to you. They can NEVER march. Also they and counts are quite different. TK are a shooting army. But this is largely irrelevant with undead legions.

Wood elves are a good choice but have a steep learning curve. It will make you a better player but the beginning will be rough as they aren't very forgiving.

Skaven are a horde army that romp when their dice go well & suck when they don't. Skaven are full of some of the nastiest things in the game that you have to hope don't blow up in your face. That said they are VERY good but expect to paint at LEAST 150 slaves.

Painting requirements are certainly not the norm. Don't worry OP, most tournaments don't require you to be painted. A lot have painting as part of your overall score, but its not a requirement. Although if you are unpainted its impossible for you to win best overall.


As for lore overlap, there is very little other then the most vague descriptors.

Vampire Counts are a solid army, if you like the look and style then go for it. They're on the expensive side though as you'll need a TON of models. You can easily end the game with more models than you began.

Having a fully painted army for a tournament is not the norm for where I play. Come with half painted...all grey or a fully painted army noone judges you.

As a skaven player I want to recommend them but at the same time I don't. You need a lot of models and its really time consuming and expensive to collect. Even with getting halves of island of blood to start it still gets expensive.
My 2500 point list I have been using has:
130 Clanrat/Slave models
35 Plague Monks
35-40 Stormvermin
couple of heroes
cannons, hellpit or doomwheel (depends how I am feeling)
Plague furnace
So its a lot to paint and can get expensive

You chose some horde armies but skaven are the hordiest of hordes...I geuss a zombie horde can get close tho

Just pick the army you like the look of but I might be inclined to go Dark Elves. They have a bit of everything: shooting, magic, cavalry, monsters etc etc. Strong army and fun to play

 Grey Templar wrote:
Painting requirements are certainly not the norm. Don't worry OP, most tournaments don't require you to be painted. A lot have painting as part of your overall score, but its not a requirement. Although if you are unpainted its impossible for you to win best overall.


As for lore overlap, there is very little other then the most vague descriptors.

Vampire Counts are a solid army, if you like the look and style then go for it. They're on the expensive side though as you'll need a TON of models. You can easily end the game with more models than you began.

Round here, all events require painted armies.

Right now its a toss up between dark elves and VC

One of the reasons I'm interested in WHFB is due to nagash and the end times also being able to have half of my arm for $100 seems like a good deal to me can anyone tell me how the end times stuff affects VC

It won't save you any money. Nagash is 1,000 points and 100 but you will be spending a lot more because to make up his 1,000 pts he needs top be summoning new units.

Undead are NEVER cheap. You'll need at minimum 40 ghouls & 100 skeletons + zombies. The end times affects undead by combining VC & TK which means you need to buy more units for all the summoning possibilities.

Undead are expensive & time consuming. Unless you are 100% SURE you want undead go with Dark Elves. I started with VC because I was 100% sure I wanted an undead army & it has taken a LOT of work to play anything else because you don't learn about psychology which is a major part of the game.

Also elves should be getting a big nasty lord (Khaine/Avatar of khaine) in book 3. DE are the cheaper better option, unless you are 100% sure you want undead. I'm not trying to say don't start with Undead, I did, I'm just saying be VERY sure of it. I didn't say I want VC or maybe Chaos, i said I want VC or I want nothing. If you have 2 equals pick the non undead for your first army. Then when you know the rules pick up undead.

I will echo Shas'O'Dorian.

Legions of Undeath is not an economy army due to Nagash... sure he's 1k points, but he'll be summoning a LOT of that 1k onto the battlefield... he's really the ultimate force multiplier. And the rules flat out state "you need to have the models". I used to not get too uptight about that, but ever since 40k's 7th ed tomfoolery, it's one i actually abide by now, and Nagash orbits the same center of gravity for me. He's a big scary 1k lord who's going to summon a lot of his initial points investment right back. So if you play in an area that abides by that rule, he's a 1k lord that is going to summon up several hundred points of undead models in addition.... so in essence, he's really not making much sense if you're looking at a 1k lord to make your purchases more economical. Glottkin does that (though he can summon too... but no way near as nasty as Nagash).

SOD also nailed it, Undead are one of those oddball armies that every game has ; the one that ignores a gakload of core rules (in this case psychology and normal morale / break rules - completely ignoring the first, and replacing the second with something different).

They are a very cool army to play and i recommend them to anyone that likes the theme (and lets be honest.... blender lords are just fething amazing), but they are a little diffferent from all the other armies in some very big ways.


So if you're 100% sure that you want to go with the undead route, then go for it. If you are at all unsure.... i'd recommend Dark Elves.


Ultimately the coolest army is the one you like the look of the most.

Thanks for all the help guys when I start playing a new army I always pick up the army book and play a lot of games with proxies before I buy any models so $50 isn't the biggest hit if I end up not liking the army but right now It looks like I'm leaning towards dark elves

To offer a dossenting opinion, Undead can be relatively cheap if you head the TK direction. I am a TK player and so look at UndeadLegions from a different angle than the posters above: their comments are salient but apply mainly to Vampire Counts. In the context of Undead Legions, Tomb Kings can be faster than Vampires, thanks to M7 units that can now march and then double-march thanks to the nehek signature.

Let us look at say a starter 1k Undead Legion army, focusing on Tomb Kings. To save money, we are avoiding the use of summoning spells.

Level 3, Lore of Nehek, 175pts

16 Skeleton Archers, Mus 106
3 Skeleton Chariots, 165

Khemrian Warsphinx 210
Khemrian Warsphinx 210

Casket of Souls

That is one character blister (can easily be the much nicer Necromancer model), two boxes of core at £20 each, then three models at £36 each I think. Not the world's most SUPERWIN army, but it works and provides a solid foundation to expand on. I would, when increasing the army from this point, then add Black Knights and a Blender Vampire lord, as well as Morghasts, NecropolisKnights or Crypt Ghouls to taste, and then you have a whole bunch of hard-hitting elements just marching right up into the enemy's face, healing and double-moving the whole way.

Can you guys gie any advice about lizardmen they seem really cool and the models are great but ahain I know nothing about them

Lizards are a great 1st army. They play in every phase and cold blooded makes them fairly forgiving combined with tough infantry & some kick ass characters.

They aren't top tier competitive but they aren't bottom either. Generally they suffer from low I so be wary of pit of shades or Purple sun.

Plus, who doesn't love giant dinosaurs?

Yeah Aztec dinoauars riding bigger dinosaurs is awesome

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Painting requirements are certainly not the norm. Don't worry OP, most tournaments don't require you to be painted. A lot have painting as part of your overall score, but its not a requirement. Although if you are unpainted its impossible for you to win best overall.


As for lore overlap, there is very little other then the most vague descriptors.

Vampire Counts are a solid army, if you like the look and style then go for it. They're on the expensive side though as you'll need a TON of models. You can easily end the game with more models than you began.

Round here, all events require painted armies.

Well you are in the UK. The OP is in the US. We don't usually require paint here on the west coast, its encouraged by scoring mechanisms, but its not required.

Well I like painting and am pretty decent at it only one other person in our group actually paints. One guy actually got his army pro painted but all he seems to do is collect and doesn't really play so I should be good for anything that requires paint. So I should be able to pay for my army by painting other people's armies