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Trying not to sound like I'm complaining but is there a way to play Orks with out having to put on your biggest puppy dog eyes and begging your opponent "pretty pretty please don't bring any tanks."?

I've fought against marines, dark eldar, Greg knights, and 30k. DE and 30k was the most mismatch but in all of them I find it completely unplayable against mechanized armies. I know Orks are 40k hard mode but this is borderlined pointless from my experience.

eje005 wrote:
Trying not to sound like I'm complaining but is there a way to play Orks with out having to put on your biggest puppy dog eyes and begging your opponent "pretty pretty please don't bring any tanks."?

I've fought against marines, dark eldar, Greg knights, and 30k. DE and 30k was the most mismatch but in all of them I find it completely unplayable against mechanized armies. I know Orks are 40k hard mode but this is borderlined pointless from my experience.

What list you playing? The Ork list I have been playing does really well.

Tankbustas got good this edition, rokkits are cheaper than before, try to put these things in your list for anti-tank...

Let me start by saying I don't play orks. I play against orks though with a variety of armies, not as much as I would like but some.

Orks have had it extremely rough after the new codex.

Essentially there are 3 options I have seen to bust tanks;
1) tankbustas in trukks
2) lootas
3) Mek gunz

Alternatively if Lords of War are an option the stompa can be made to be very good.

Another option that seems to work well to kill most things are meganobz in trukk. They seem to kill most things they can catch but they can struggle to catch some units and some imperial knights will demolish them. Allies can also be an option but I will not mention them since you asked about orks.

My standard 2k list contains ~ 3 trukks of shoota boyz with power klaw. Sometimes armored, sometimes not. 20 boyz in a battlewagon, 10 tank bustas in a trukk, warboss on bike with nob friends, and 5 meganobz in a trukk. So far, 10 rokkits aren't enough to destroy anything over AV11 before dying, followed quickly by the mega nobz getting their trukk blown up and running on foot, and the boyz getting out of the trukks to power klaw a tank down just in time to get shot, counter charged and wiped. Can't keep Trukks or Battlewagons alive past turn 2.

Maybe you just need to revise your list... I can spot some errors (less competitive build) right away...

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Maybe you just need to revise your list... I can spot some errors (less competitive build) right away...

I'm going for a speed freaks theme, I don't mind breaking it a little, but I don't really have any urge to play the default 100 boyz list. I know this caveat tends to make things more difficult, but I'm not playing against particularly competitive lists. The DE army was mostly warrios in raiders and he just could move away from me and shoot faster than I could approach and not shoot.

eje005 wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Maybe you just need to revise your list... I can spot some errors (less competitive build) right away...

I'm going for a speed freaks theme, I don't mind breaking it a little, but I don't really have any urge to play the default 100 boyz list. I know this caveat tends to make things more difficult, but I'm not playing against particularly competitive lists. The DE army was mostly warrios in raiders and he just could move away from me and shoot faster than I could approach and not shoot.

Build your army with the best stuff!

Bully Boyz in Trukks
Tankbustas in Wagons
Lootas
Deffkoptas with Warboss on bike (with Da Finkin Kap) and Painboy on bike -- the Koptas scout is huge!
Hardboys in Trukks (don't ever run boys in Trukks that aren't 'ard.

Use Da Finking Kap to go for infiltrate. 50% chance of getting it.

25% chance of going first, with infiltrate, and scout
25% chance of going first with scout
25% chance of going second with infiltrate and scout
25% chance of going second with scout
This means that 75% of the time you got serious stuff going for you!!

eje005 wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Maybe you just need to revise your list... I can spot some errors (less competitive build) right away...

I'm going for a speed freaks theme, I don't mind breaking it a little, but I don't really have any urge to play the default 100 boyz list. I know this caveat tends to make things more difficult, but I'm not playing against particularly competitive lists. The DE army was mostly warrios in raiders and he just could move away from me and shoot faster than I could approach and not shoot.

I play speed freeks too... I have a couple critiques though...

1. Shootas on Trukk boyz isn't very effective as you usually want to flat out... It just makes some difficult decisions for you, and because trukks are like paper it isn't as effective to slow down ever.

2. Split the Meganobz (MANZ) into 2 units. 3 MANZ is enough to wreck most things and then they have 2 targets instead of 1.

3. Use multiple solo (or 2 or 3, I just prefer solo) Deffkoptas or Warbuggies to target the sides and rears of tanks, don't have all your AT in one Trukk.

4. Split your Tankbustas into 2 squads of 5 so you can have more bomb squigs... When you release 3 tank hunter bomb squigs, you will do a lot of damage to light/medium vehicles.

5. This isn't a list critique but a mind block you might want to clear (not trying to be bossy, tone would really matter here). Don't expect your vehicles to live that long, trukks are paper, and battlewagons are cardboard. They will die! You don't even give them Kustom Force Field protection, yet you expect them to live. If you want greater survivability, convert a KFF (Kustom Force Field) big mek on bike to go behind your vehicle wall and give them some saves.

Hope this helps!

Boyz wreck most tanks in close combat due to the rule that their attacks count as being against rear armour. For tougher things, bring tankbustas and meganobz.

EDIT: I am surprised to find you are really struggling with Orks. Mine do pretty well against most opponents, and I haven't been playing long.

Get your boyz together, have a meeting, cover a few key points to help your waaagh!;

-A trukk is to be thought of a t6 model with three wounds that can't be doubleD out and carries boyz

-it takes 7 str 7 hits to glance a trukk with cover save to death. To produce this in an ork army it's roughly 7 to 21 lootas at one trukkk!

 Waaagh 18 wrote:


I play speed freeks too... I have a couple critiques though...

1. Shootas on Trukk boyz isn't very effective as you usually want to flat out... It just makes some difficult decisions for you, and because trukks are like paper it isn't as effective to slow down ever.

2. Split the Meganobz (MANZ) into 2 units. 3 MANZ is enough to wreck most things and then they have 2 targets instead of 1.

3. Use multiple solo (or 2 or 3, I just prefer solo) Deffkoptas or Warbuggies to target the sides and rears of tanks, don't have all your AT in one Trukk.

4. Split your Tankbustas into 2 squads of 5 so you can have more bomb squigs... When you release 3 tank hunter bomb squigs, you will do a lot of damage to light/medium vehicles.

5. This isn't a list critique but a mind block you might want to clear (not trying to be bossy, tone would really matter here). Don't expect your vehicles to live that long, trukks are paper, and battlewagons are cardboard. They will die! You don't even give them Kustom Force Field protection, yet you expect them to live. If you want greater survivability, convert a KFF (Kustom Force Field) big mek on bike to go behind your vehicle wall and give them some saves.

Hope this helps!

Interesting ideas. Do you play unbound with all those single/low model units?

 Rismonite wrote:

Get your boyz together, have a meeting, cover a few key points to help your waaagh!;

-A trukk is to be thought of a t6 model with three wounds that can't be doubleD out and carries boyz

-it takes 7 str 7 hits to glance a trukk with cover save to death. To produce this in an ork army it's roughly 7 to 21 lootas at one trukkk!

It's maintaining a cover save while moving up and/or fighting against things that don't allow cover that's the problem. Contemptors with Kheres Assaul Cannons have a penchant for one-turning my Trukks as well.

 Krusha wrote:

Boyz wreck most tanks in close combat due to the rule that their attacks count as being against rear armour. For tougher things, bring tankbustas and meganobz.

Vehicles with a rear 12 armor tend not to be Power Klaw-able. And the issue is once I melee open a Land Raider, what ever I opened it up with is going to die. So I'm down one Anti-Tank unit.

eje005 wrote:
Vehicles with a rear 12 armor tend not to be Power Klaw-able. And the issue is once I melee open a Land Raider, what ever I opened it up with is going to die. So I'm down one Anti-Tank unit.

OK, apologies if I have missed something, but I am not sure I follow.

Your initial query was how to deal with armour *in general* when dealing with Space Marines, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights and 30k, whereas your later posts suggest that the guys you play against on a regular basis take nothing but land raiders.

I haven't played against Grey Knights or 30k so I can't comment on them, however...

1) Most Space Marine vehicles do have rear armour 10. My boyz wreck them all the time.
2) AFAIK, Dark Eldar vehicles don't even have decent FRONT armour.
3) Vehicles with rear armour 12 (not that I can think of any off the top of my head) are very power-klawable. A charging nob with a power klaw has four S9 AP2 attacks that hit on a 3+, which is the equivalent of a Space Marine Devastator squad firing four lascannons at the tank - and if you are playing Orks properly, all your boyz mobs will have someone equipped in this fashion. A warboss has five strength 10 attacks, which are re-rollable if you have a lukky stikk.
4) Boyz come with krak stikkbombz as standard, so they can still damage rear av12 in melee.
5) If you are still worried about land raiders, remember that you are an Ork player. Your dedicated anti-tank options are cheap and expendable. Three meganobz including a bosspole, one meganob with twin killsaws and a trukk with a reinforced ram cost just 170 points, and they will still pose a threat to most units that land raiders carry (charging terminators will beat them, but they will suffer a lot of casualties in the process). Tankbustas are DIRT cheap, as just 5 of them in a trukk with reinforced ram = 100 points, so who cares if they die afterwards?

First...stop thinking that Orks are underpowered. You're not doing yourself any favors be expecting to get beaten. Also, it's just not true.

A Speed Freaks themed army has a lot going for it, anti armor included. 5 warbuggies, armed with twin linked Rokkit Launchas, only runs 125pts. The same amount of Deffkoptas with the same armament for 150. Try working some of those into your list for highly mobile anti armor.

As for the list you've been running, I feel you need to swap something else into your battlewagon. For example, you're having issues with your mega nobz getting their trukk blown up early in the game...why aren't they in the battlewagon? Even the 10 tank bustas, as a unit that NEEDS to be where you want them, would be a better option.

Also, as someone already mentioned, a KFF in some form or another could really help out.

Just my 2cents.

 Voidwraith wrote:
First...stop thinking that Orks are underpowered. You're not doing yourself any favors be expecting to get beaten. Also, it's just not true.

A Speed Freaks themed army has a lot going for it, anti armor included. 5 warbuggies, armed with twin linked Rokkit Launchas, only runs 125pts. The same amount of Deffkoptas with the same armament for 150. Try working some of those into your list for highly mobile anti armor.

As for the list you've been running, I feel you need to swap something else into your battlewagon. For example, you're having issues with your mega nobz getting their trukk blown up early in the game...why aren't they in the battlewagon? Even the 10 tank bustas, as a unit that NEEDS to be where you want them, would be a better option.

Also, as someone already mentioned, a KFF in some form or another could really help out.

Just my 2cents.

I don't remember ever saying they were underpowered? As far as putting things in battlewagons go, I have found they generally last as long as trukks. Every time my opponent can simply move 6 inches to the left and get a shot on the side armor.

eje005 wrote:
Trying not to sound like I'm complaining but is there a way to play Orks with out having to put on your biggest puppy dog eyes and begging your opponent "pretty pretty please don't bring any tanks."?

I've fought against marines, dark eldar, Greg knights, and 30k. DE and 30k was the most mismatch but in all of them I find it completely unplayable against mechanized armies. I know Orks are 40k hard mode but this is borderlined pointless from my experience.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what the highlighted phrases from your original post were getting at. Carry on.

 Voidwraith wrote:

eje005 wrote:
Trying not to sound like I'm complaining but is there a way to play Orks with out having to put on your biggest puppy dog eyes and begging your opponent "pretty pretty please don't bring any tanks."?

I've fought against marines, dark eldar, Greg knights, and 30k. DE and 30k was the most mismatch but in all of them I find it completely unplayable against mechanized armies. I know Orks are 40k hard mode but this is borderlined pointless from my experience.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what the highlighted phrases from your original post were getting at. Carry on.

There's not an easy way to reply to this with out appearing like I'm arguing. The first two bolded sentences highlight issues with armor, not the power ranking of the codex itself, the last bolded sentence is more about any melee-centric army in the current edition having issues with vehicles, and Orks being a melee-centric book.

Krusha wrote:
2) AFAIK, Dark Eldar vehicles don't even have decent FRONT armour.

My issues with DE is when they get turn one, all my vehicles are now destroyed, and I can't get close enough to them to even touch them.

@Krusua. I agree with what you said, but stikkbombs are assault grenades, not krak grenades.

So far, 10 rokkits aren't enough to destroy anything over AV11 before dying...

Not sure I agree...are you forgetting the tankhunter rule? 10 rokkits gives 3.33 htis, with re-rollable AP. Against AV12 should give 2.5 hull points lost with 1.85 Pens. Add a couple more Bustas and you should be able to reliably kill anything except AV14. And if you can charge, no tank the game can withstand the meltabomb's tankhunter + armorbane combo....although the likely explosion will probably kill a lot of the bustas.