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So, IA 13 has boosted CSM but imho given us the army list with genuine character and consideration. The Renegades and Heretics army list.

I have already ordered some FW conversion kits and can't wait to get into a new project I have waited years for.

What will you R&H lists be?

I keep trying to figure out a way to make a R&H grenadier list work with the Bloody Reaver HQ, but can't quite nail it down, the squads get expensive fast and the variable Ld is quite a challenge.

For a truly scary list though, spamming artillery units is probably a solid winner.

Artillery spam at the backfield, and flamer sentinals in the front.
That's a nasty army.

I might be wrong cause i'm not in for FW myself but from what i see, it tends to produce lots of nasty vehicles, artillery, monsters...big stuff in other words.

I will be looking at running Master of the Horde army list which will comprise of larges amount of infantry and maybe get myself some more ogryns now that they are better.

I think its awesome how everything is cheap now, even if it means having BS2. Just means more waves of infantry to be slaughtered for the blood god!

I also might look at getting some more Tanks now that R&H can now take vehicle squadrons.

I've been playing Renegades recently and doing pretty well with them. Here is what I like so far

Arch-Demagogue with Convent of Tzeentch - This is great to throw in a lasier rapier unit or HWT unit as it lets them snap fire at BS2 allowing them to move and shoot or shoot down flyers pretty good.

Spawn - at 55 pts for 3 they are absurdly cheap for what they can do. They are great harassing units that also can threaten vehicles and fast units like wave serpents. Plus ObjSec so they have to be shot at thus drawing away fire from the rest of your army.

Infantry Squads - Awesome, they can do a lot of damage with Pistol+CCW for their price. Take a blob with Kraks and a Chaos Sigil and they are surprisingly durable and very threatning to most units in the game for very cheap. Also taking 10 in a chimera with 2 Meltas and Militia training is a great way to spam ObjSec units and get some anti-tank and mobility in the list (plus are supported well by Spawn)

Lasier Rapier Destroyers - Pretty obvious. Very cheap Artillery thats very reliable for shooting vehicles.

Leman Russ Conquerors - A LRBT that traded Ordnance for being a Fast Tank and a co-axial storm bolter, They are frighteningly cheap for what they can do.

Wyverns - 10 pts cheaper for BS2 on a twin-linked barrage. Nothing else to say.

Allied Sorcerer with Balestar - This is very important for R&H I find. It gives you extra dice to denycritical spells such as Invis. It also is a great source of Divination for prescience and since he can join your units is the only way to give Ignore Cover to you army via Perfect Timing. Also gives Ld10 to the unit so is great to add to artillery.

The big thing I'm finding is a lot of the our units just pale in comparison to Infantry Squads. Also Heavy Support is where most of our strong units are so they are in very tight competition for those 3 slots. Its worth noting that Sentinels are pretty much the only reasonable source of heavy weapons outside Heavy Support though i've yet to test them out.

Yes, Tzeentch is actually a very solid heretic force, surprising considering how pathetic his marines are.
Snaps at BS2 holds some heavy potential. counter-charge power apart, the "I can shot ground or air, still or moving" deal is quite scary, even if the unit's original BS is not amazing to begin with, double the regular hits when moving heavy weapons around is NOT to be ignored.

Khorne grants you the lovely ability to do massive damage with horde charges, and the unlock is quite decent.
Not a huge fan, but he has some power.

Nurgle sticks to the theme of "die less", never a bad plan, but can be acquired through heretek magus as well, and the unlocks are meh.
I would not recommend a nurgle renegade army, his marines and daemons are so much better.

Its Slaanesh that finds himself in the pit this time. fleet units is not helpful here and noise marines/sonic dreads don't quite fit the army anyway. honestly a flop.
Poor Slaanesh is not doing well in ANY chaos book.

Agreed about the infantry squads. I'd still consider swapping to autoguns, but the ability to take several hundred infantry in 1500 points who still 'recycle' when killed is a scary concept.

I'd probably suggest the following core components:

1) Master of The Horde. Because expendable minions are awesome

2) A metric crap-ton of renegade platoons with nothing but autoguns, a Demagogue and a Master-Vox. Take a decent proportion of 20-strong units.

3) Artillery - rapiers for antitank, quad-launchers for antipersonnel

4) Wall of martyrs defence network. This provides cover for your artillery and riflemen, gives them stubborn, emplacemed guns for flak and extra firepower, and several buildings that can be given escape hatches, allowing you to express-line 60+ soldiers 18" down-range in your first movement phase...

I love the renegade and heretics addition. I will definitely start a list of this once I finished my Grey Knights and IK project.

Very happy to see this upgrade happen, especially without having to repurchase 2nd edtion version of all 3 Vraks books at the same time.

I had decided against building a converted heretic force and then suddenly found myself separated and heading towards divorce so pulled the trigger and ordered all the FW heretic parts I needed along with all the cadian boxed sets I needed to complete the figures. Now I have a massive horde of heretic minis with plenty of forge world daemon engines, walkers and greater daemons and princes. The vets in my army are made up of necromunda redemptionists as well. Looking to acquire some of the nurgle putrid blight knights to make a few more plague ogryns since FW only made 3 of them. Looking forward to giving this new version of the list a go.

I will admit that the variable leadership really makes things inconsistent since one game good leadership roles lead to a rock hard force and the next everybody runs almost immediately. These have always been such characterful lists, though, that I've long put up with it and still enjoy it a lot.

Skriker

I'm using skaven as heretics because they are cheap as chips (seriously, 40 of them from ebay are 20 bucks) and full of chaosy character. Dark eldar weapons fit them perfectly. I just need to be pretty forgiving about LoS because of their height.


Infantry platoons with demagogues, master vox, and sigils pretty much negate the random leadership, barring some VERY bad rolls. Overall, they can be made much more gritty than most other army's leadership.

And for those of you sticking tzeench demagouges with rapiers, remember that laser destroyers are ordinance and can't fire snapshots. :/

I am genuinely impressed, there seems to be a real enthusiasm for this list.

Personally, I am am going for an Arch-Heretic Revolutionary with a mix of groundpounders, air cavalry, few LRBT and BAAAAAANNNNNEEEEEBLAAAADDDEEE!

Planning an ally army to my CSMs that focuses mostly on Leman Russes and plague zombies. The renegades will be the horde my CSMs stand behind while they wreck face.

Finding models now through trades and eBay. The great thing about AM is that there are a lot of people selling them.

An interesting thing about the R&H Leman Russes also is that sponson options aren't actually such a bad option for ordnance tanks, as with their lower BS, the snapshots-only restrictions don't hurt as bad, and can help get force another save or two to help compensate for the slightly worse scatter.