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So I was wondering which one you guys think is better overall.

Deffkopta:
+ faster turbo boost
+ scout
+ hit and run
+ TL big shootas or rokkits vs. dakka guns (big shootas have same stats but 2x range, rokkits are AT)
- smaller squad size
- meh upgrades
- cost more points

Warbiker:
+ slugga and choppa for extra CC attack
+ less points
+ can take much larger squads
+ can take a Nob leader to benefit from mob rule
+ Warbikers help jink saves
- not jet bikes like Deffkoptas
- lack some special rules Deffkoptas have

So which one do you think is better Dakka?

People who are voting for warbikers haven't tried attaching 5 deffkoptas to a Warboss on a bike and a Painboy on a bike for guaranteed first turn pressure from scout. Not to even mention hit and run. It's sick.

col_impact wrote:
People who are voting for warbikers haven't tried attaching 5 deffkoptas to a Warboss on a bike and a Painboy on a bike for guaranteed first turn pressure from scout. Not to even mention hit and run. It's sick.

Is that truly possibly then yes that's better I always thought you couldn't attach bikes to deffkoptas. But that solves all the issues deffkoptas have with low leadership and lack of fnp.

And what you do? Bring the deffkopta in CC?

Buzz saw = PK

For smaller games, i'd prefer koptas. For larger, 3+ cover, much better mellee and numbers will make the day.

How do warbikes get 3+ cover? Does their exhaust cloud now give them stealth?

Exhaust cloud gives +1 to jink when turbo-boosting.

gungo wrote:

col_impact wrote:
People who are voting for warbikers haven't tried attaching 5 deffkoptas to a Warboss on a bike and a Painboy on a bike for guaranteed first turn pressure from scout. Not to even mention hit and run. It's sick.

Is that truly possibly then yes that's better I always thought you couldn't attach bikes to deffkoptas. But that solves all the issues deffkoptas have with low leadership and lack of fnp.

It is completely possible. An independant character can join jet bikes, however the Jet Bikes will be forced to move at his speed. But you can slingshot the Warboss and Painboy with the Deffkoptas because of Scout. It's brilliant fun. This means you have a New Nob Biker unit, sort of. You have 7 models, all with at least 2 wounds and glorious Twin Linked Rokkits. AND you don't have to worry about moving 15 bikes who will all have to take Dangerous Terrain tests at the slight bump. Much easier to use, much more fun.

+ Give the Warboss a Finkin Kap instead of Da Lucky Stikk and watch your opponents rear armor disappear faster and ever with infultrate.
I choose Deffkoptas however it was a close call. Competitively speaking, Warbikers are more effective with the Painboy and Warboss biker deffstar. However, I choose Deffkoptas because they can fit into most army builds, at most point levels, whereas Warbikers aren't as flexable.

Sketchyfk wrote:

gungo wrote:

col_impact wrote:
People who are voting for warbikers haven't tried attaching 5 deffkoptas to a Warboss on a bike and a Painboy on a bike for guaranteed first turn pressure from scout. Not to even mention hit and run. It's sick.

Is that truly possibly then yes that's better I always thought you couldn't attach bikes to deffkoptas. But that solves all the issues deffkoptas have with low leadership and lack of fnp.

It is completely possible. An independant character can join jet bikes, however the Jet Bikes will be forced to move at his speed. But you can slingshot the Warboss and Painboy with the Deffkoptas because of Scout. It's brilliant fun. This means you have a New Nob Biker unit, sort of. You have 7 models, all with at least 2 wounds and glorious Twin Linked Rokkits. AND you don't have to worry about moving 15 bikes who will all have to take Dangerous Terrain tests at the slight bump. Much easier to use, much more fun.

+ Give the Warboss a Finkin Kap instead of Da Lucky Stikk and watch your opponents rear armor disappear faster and ever with infultrate.
I choose Deffkoptas however it was a close call. Competitively speaking, Warbikers are more effective with the Painboy and Warboss biker deffstar. However, I choose Deffkoptas because they can fit into most army builds, at most point levels, whereas Warbikers aren't as flexable.

It should also be pointed out that Deffkoptas help you more against the matches you are struggling with, by bringing early pressure!

I vote grots!

Good question.

Warbikers are better than Biker Nobz now imo, the problem is that fielding too many bikers will be tricky for movement and dangerous terrain.
Therefore, the combination of Biker HQ + Koptas is great. Scout + TL Rokkit + T5/HP2 is precious.

If Koptaz are used "alone" for hit and run, they are very good @ 1000-1500pts.
Otherwise, I would advice a third contester: buggies. Because AV10 and TL Rokkit is gud.

Koptas would be superior IMO except they don't come stock with a nob. That changes the whole dynamic of the unit.

You either need a non combat IC who can just refuse making them a rather expensive shooty unit, or else 2 ICs so one klaw can keep swinging. Otherwise things like NDKs or even iyanden WKs will just wreck the unit with no recourse.

I like single koptas better. Other than that 3+ jink especially with DLS is more durable not to mention getting doubled out by S10.