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Making a BAO style Daemons list with self ally. Any thoughts appreciated

Chaos Daemons (CAD)

HQ
Tzeentch Herald: ML3, Disc
Tzeentch Herald: ML3, Disc
Khorne Herald: Greater, Lesser, Locus of Wrath, Juggernaut
Daemon Prince: Daemon of Nurgle, ML3, Wings, Armor, 2x Greater, Lesser

Troops
13x Pink Horrors
12x Pink Horrors

Fast Attack
20x Flesh Hounds
7x Screamers

Chaos Daemons (Allied Detachment)

HQ
Daemon Prince: Daemon of Nurgle, ML3, Wings, Armor, 2x Greater, Lesser

Troops
3x Nurglings


So the idea is to have a mobile summoning platform/medium assault threat in the form of the Screamer and Tz'eralds. Aiming for 1 summoning a turn, if I can pull off 2, gravy. 16 Warp Charge dice is a little light, but I'm not trying to run a summoning farm, just augment what's on the table with MSU harassment to tie things up/score objectives/be annoying. Nurgle Princes roll on Biomancy most of the time, maybe telepathy if I really feel like I need to invis the unit of hounds. Hounds and Herald do what they do best and apply early game pressure to keep the focus off of the rest of the army.

Anything you'd change? Glaring issues? Thanks in advance. List is intended for semi-competitive to competitive play.

No grimoire? I usually try and take one on my tzeentch heralds.

Be'lakor instead of a Nurgle DP might be worth it. A bit more utility to go with the summoning.

Yeah, nice list but I agree with BBB. Also Id consider Fateweaver for the first FMC and Be'lakor for your alied detachment. The reroll is good and his warlordtrait mitigates bad Warprolls. Lastly Id ditch some hounds for max Screamers. Youre bound to run into Knights where Screamers help.

Good luck with your list!

Cilithan

Big Blind Bill wrote:No grimoire? I usually try and take one on my tzeentch heralds.

Be'lakor instead of a Nurgle DP might be worth it. A bit more utility to go with the summoning.

Definitely considered Be'lakor. I'll probably try the list with and without him.

As far as the Grimoire goes, I just cant see using it without Fateweaver and he's just so. . disappointing to me in 7th. It's hard to have enough warp charge dice to manifest enough witchfires to make him useful and still have enough to buff/summon. I feel like I lose a lot of offensive capability when I bring him so I've been straying away from the grimoire.

Cilithan wrote:Yeah, nice list but I agree with BBB. Also Id consider Fateweaver for the first FMC and Be'lakor for your alied detachment. The reroll is good and his warlordtrait mitigates bad Warprolls. Lastly Id ditch some hounds for max Screamers. Youre bound to run into Knights where Screamers help.

Good luck with your list!

Cilithan

As above, Fateweaver is a frustrating choice to me. Yes one re roll (that admittedly can be crucial) and Warpstorm table manipulation (less essential in my eyes as it generally has little impact on the game, and can be duplicated if rolled as a warlord trait) are useful, but I think I prefer the offensive capabilities of other Daemon FMC's at the moment. That opinion may well change with more 7th ed. experience on my part.

As for hounds vs screamers, my meta is surprisingly light on Knights, but I play Tau and Eldar quite regularly so I need every last Hound I can get if I hope to get them in combat! (Invis would obviously help with this, so yeah, Be'lakor will make an appearance at some point.)

Thanks to both of you for the reviews. How would you say something like this stacks up to a Flying Circus in terms of competitiveness?

I like the grimoire to use on the screamers, as against shooting attacks they can still fall back on their jink save if the check fails, but if it passes and you get cursed earth, you get the fabled 2++ rerollable.

I run daemon lists with Be'lakor, hounds, screamers and soul grinders usually. The list is all about durability. The screamers can achieve a 2++ save in 2 ways, either through grimoire and cursed earth, or Be'lakor using shrouded and standing near them.

The screamers will then try to screen the rest of the army, who may or may not have shrouded from be'lakor. Be'lakor's invisibility will be put on the priority target, usually a soul grinder who has to fight a knight or something.
Left over charges are used to spawn daemonettes or some other unit.

My list will play its ground forces very similar to yours, however you will have to use the DPs to put pressure on.

Compared to the flying circus your list is half of the standard 7th edition flying circus anyway. I would say it will play pretty comparatively.

Alright I think you talked me back into the grimoire.

I'd probably prefer two Grinders to the one Nurgle Prince, but I don't own 'em yet. They just seem so much more independent than a Prince. I mean it pretty much takes rolling Iron Arm and having some source of FNP for the Prince to be as durable as a grinder, and he's still susceptible to having powers shut down by other warp charge heavy armies. So, meh. I think it will still fair decently, granted that I play it well. Sometimes my brain breaks a little trying to think of all the possibilities of psychic shenanigans that I could pull in a given turn. That's what's fun about the list though

As an aside, how often do you find yourself playing aggressively with Be'lakor?

I play BAO tournies all the time with daemons and find fateweaver to be crucial. I do face a good number of Knights though so his reroll helps grounding tests a lot.
I won the last tourny with this list. I can never get to liking khorn dogs, as for the 2++ screamer star it just slaughters eldar and tau so there's no reason not to take it.

Belakor is good but I find the match ups I need shroud I have most my prices go full telepathy anyways, eldar/tau since the other powers are super amazing. That's possible 8 rolls if absolutely needed.

Here is what I'm playing right now with amazing success.

Daemon Prince: The Black Mace; Psyker (Mastery Level 1); wings; power armour; Daemon of Nurgle 290

10 Chaos Cultists 50

Heralds of Chaos
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Exalted Reward; Disc of Tzeentch 125
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Disc of Tzeentch 120
Kairos Fateweaver 300

11 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch 99
3 Nurgling Swarms 45

6 Screamers of Tzeentch 150

Lord of Fate Daemon Prince: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Lesser Reward; Greater Reward; daemonic flight; Warp-forged Armour 335
Lord of Fate Daemon Prince: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Lesser Reward; Greater Reward; daemonic flight; Warp-forged Armour 335

1,849 points

Interesting list for sure, it's just a little more akin to the Flying Circus than I'd like to run. I'm not so sure about the CSM Prince either. ML1 and no rewards makes it seem like he'd be an easy target compared to everything else in the list. I don't see what's not to love about hounds (especially if I switch out a Nurgle Prince for Be'lakor and dat invis goodness). They/re fast, have scout which is extremely useful, are fairly durable and are perfectly competent at wrecking serpents and beating tau face. Khorne Herald even stands a 'decent' chance at instagibbing a WraithKnight ('decent'=56% chance to instagib the WK before he swings). If I saw a WK i'd probably be gunning for him with a balesword Nurgle Prince anyways.
.
Thanks for the feedback though! I'm not sold on Fatey at the moment but I'll have to playtest with and without to know for sure