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With nerfs to flying monstrous creatures, are daemons still on form? What other builds can Daemons go by?

Does it affect tyranids the same way? Or do you think new drop pods will overtake the Flyrants? Just thoughts people

Daemons can still go Screamerstar if you don't mind cheesing it up. I did one type of flying circus (daemonology + portal glyph to spawn lots of troops from a Nurgle DP) to see what it was about and my buddy conceded after a few turns. As long as you don't try to assault or get too close with a Circus you'll be pretty ok.

You don't need the cheese to win, though. I usually go Plaguebearers + Karanak/Bloodcrushers with a Nurgle Grinder and some fast attacks/deep strike infantry to fill the list.

Tzeentch Flying MC's are definitely something I dont want on MY radar.

I hate that force. There is no current "army build" I have a big problem overcoming, save that one. In general, the invisibility thing is so amazingly stupid good that the normally less important units suddenly become major issues, disallowing you from focusing the amount of attention necessary on the FMC's. Unless you play like Grey KNights or something, it's a problem. Major Psyker defense is recomended.

Nerfs? Didn't they trade D3 Vector Strikes for only one grounding test per shooting phase and it's taken at the end + being able to jink while on the ground? As far as I know they've been buffed.

Theres nothing wrong at all with that! FMC's only having to deal with one grounding effort is truly a problem, especially if they can re-roll a failure every round like Tzeentch ones can.

Mmm... Flying Circus is considered the only viable Daemon build at my FLGS. There are some competitive players there.

To put this in perspective: there are people wrecking face with Khorne MCs. Even sub-optimal builds are pretty tough.

Three of the four gods can still put out very good FMC lists. They just play vastly different than before. There was a very good thread on this a bit ago with a number of FMC CD players who placed top 16 at some GTs with their lists weighing in.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614771.page

Daemons also have the daemon factory though it has not done particularily well at GTs (IMO due to the difficulty in playing so many games in a row with a list that requires so much effort to play). This is usually 4 Lv 4 psyker Tz heralds with some pink horror and other fillings (usually an ally to give some ranged punch early game or some DP/daemon lords for some early game positioning and punch. Pure daemon factory usually flops as it has no teeth until turn 3-4.

Herald Hammer (trademark Jy2). Which consists of a big units of khorne dogs, screamers, blight drones, and/or seekers of slaanesh with some buffing units (Be'Lakor and grimoire on herald usually). The basic concept is you buff up the most important units so they are almost assured to make it into combat with your opponents important stuff and use the other units as a distraction. Even if the buffed up units don't do the kind of damage you wanted they will usually buy you positional dominance and win the game for you.

I am sure I missed at least one more list archetype. Hopefully someone comes and brings it up. I think it had to do with nurgle soulgrinders?

Whatever. Chaos Daemons also make solid allies for CSM (new and improved with Imperial Armour 13 awesomeness) and Chaos Renegades (Now Awesome Incarnate that you Imperial Armour 13). Chaos Daemons also have decent AA if you take plague drones or soul grinders.

@lustigjh
Screamerstar, as in the 4 heralds on discs and 7-9 screamers, is not really a very powerful list anymore. It is just unpleasant now. Screamer units are pretty good though. This list lost it's game winning ability to break up at the end of the game and contest all the objectives. Now that ObjSec units are often claiming objectives and most events have a score as you go you cannot do this and win on first blood and line breaker.

You're right about Screamerstar failing at objectives. I forgot that tournaments aren't always Purge the Corpse-worshipers

 Jancoran wrote:
Theres nothing wrong at all with that! FMC's only having to deal with one grounding effort is truly a problem, especially if they can re-roll a failure every round like Tzeentch ones can.

Damn right! My 2 favourite list are Skyblight and the Tzeentch Flying Circus! If only my opponents liked them as much as I did...

Surely every army has the 'one build' that's the most effective. I hate hearing when people say that you can only build a flying circus with daemons. But then I don't play tournaments so it's never really an issue. I just take what I like the look or

Are plague drones/beasts fun to use? I love the look of them!

Im REALLY not convinced that all armies have the "one build". But Chaos Daemons have a definitively good one.

Chaos Daemons though are quite good in several builds. The Be'Lakor Khorne Dawg list is really good too.

FMC's that do not focus on assault really got a boost this edition, especially tyranids. The only taking a grounding test after taking a wound and only once makes flyrants ridiculously over-powered and with the ability to take on everything them thrown in with skyblight is really good.

 Jancoran wrote:
Im REALLY not convinced that all armies have the "one build". But Chaos Daemons have a definitively good one.

Chaos Daemons though are quite good in several builds. The Be'Lakor Khorne Dawg list is really good too.

Be'lakor + any fast daemon unit is pretty awesome. Hell, Be'lakor can make just about any daemon list good.

oz of the north wrote:
FMC's that do not focus on assault really got a boost this edition, especially tyranids. The only taking a grounding test after taking a wound and only once makes flyrants ridiculously over-powered and with the ability to take on everything them thrown in with skyblight is really good.

Just a query.... what is skyblight?

I really don't know how to load of my hq slots for Daemons. I was thinking GUO, + be'lakor, and a couple of Nurgle princes (if I'm not mistaken my heavy princes have to be the mark of my greater daemon?)

The skyblight is a formation for tyranids that is really good gives a lot of objsec gargoyles and more FMCs. Regarding daemons have not played them a lot and most that I do are super fluffy, but belakor always seems like a good choice.

Ahhhh I See! Very good I've been trying to tell my friend they're good. He things all the monstrous creatures are over costed and isn't looking at the positives. But that's why I like Daemons. But monsters, and cheap(ish) troops

Are there any formations for Daemons?? I know be'lakor is on the data slate (which I have) and hopefully the model for Christmas

This edition shooting based FMCs are ridiculously good, especially tyranids because they have the either haywire to kill vehicles and if need be can still go to ground wait a turn and then assault, or twin linked devourers are still really good.

Flying circus as it played in 6th ed is was nerfed very hard, with so many changes going against it.

Flying circus in 7th plays very little like it once did. Nurgle is now the most prominent god of choice, and summoning is the name of the game. It is still perfectly viable, For example this list: http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/11th-Overall-Kelsey-Haley-Nova-Open-2014.pdf

I think you are looking at daemons too narrowly though. There are many viable builds besides spamming FMCs.

Just because FMCs have changed does not mean daemons are any less viable. In fact, many sources would say that daemons are currently one of the the top tiers in the game, taking second place behind eldar. Summoning is a large reason for this.

I've been reading a thread where people debate on which god go give to your daemon princes. A lot favouring slaanesh... I don't know why... I think it's with the lash and extra movement. With the problem to nurgle is the fact you can negate cover saves so easily? I don't know a lot so I'm only copying and pasting

 Andy140491 wrote:
I've been reading a thread where people debate on which god go give to your daemon princes. A lot favouring slaanesh... I don't know why... I think it's with the lash and extra movement. With the problem to nurgle is the fact you can negate cover saves so easily? I don't know a lot so I'm only copying and pasting

You can negate cover easily? Not really. A few armies can, specifically eldar and tau, but besides in these forces 'ignores cover' on weapons that can hurt a flying DP are quite hard to come by. Nurgle DP's biggest problem is the lack of sweeping advance, which stops them for utilizing their high initiative to wipe units out. This makes large blobs difficult for them to deal with.

You need to check how old that thread is, slaanesh was favourite when the codex was first released, however the changes in psychic powers and the introduction of summoning has caused them to become less popular. They rely on getting iron arm from biomancy to be effective.

Tzeentch was also very effective in the past, it got weaker with 7th ed, but is still ok.

Nurgle is the real winner of 7th ed, and khorne still remains the worst.

The link that was posted earlier in this thread. And I think it was dated within the last couple of months..

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614771.page

the more you read into it the more debates kick up


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chadbrochill17 wrote:
So many things in this thread bother me...

The rules specifically say a unit cannot cast the same spell more than once, I know there is a rules debate thread for that but I just wanted to say just how assinine it is that you assume differently, when 2 of like 1000 tournaments, oh, and "your buddies" play it that way. These arent house rules, it fething says it directly.

Secondly, nurgle DP are crap, the sword is good, but your cver save is basically worthless with the amount of things that remove it now.

Slaanesh > Tzeentch, but at least tzeench can work well.

How many people are goingto be taking a culexus assassin? The answer is probably 1 in 20 or even less, this model is NO reason to alter your llistist in ANY way.

Someone asked how important summoning was for FMC, hulksmash's answer was shocking to me, you do not need summoning at ALL, if you feel like it use it but is it necessary? HELL NO!!! I have on squad of 11 horrors for summoning in my list, and if they get the invul spell they wont be summoning anything.

/rant

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just as an example within 2 minutes of reading it

I think that post is an exception, rather than the norm.

To be honest, that post is completely wrong.

Have a read through this blog: http://daemons40k.blogspot.com/

You will see how the picks have changed over time. It is also a pretty good source of competitive daemon plays.