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Hi Dakka,

Just want a rules clarification on Lias rules. Rule in question:

'Infiltrate, Isolate, Destroy: If an army includes Lias Issodon its controlling player may select a single enemy unit, Monstrous Creature or vehicle that has been deployed onto the table. After any Scout redeployments have been made, but before the game begins, the chosen unit suffers D6+3 wounds with no AP value if a squad or Monstrous Creature, distributed as shooting hits (assume
the attack has originated from the closest unit in Issodon’s force). If the target is a vehicle, it suffers D3 rolls on the Haywire table instead (see page 37 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook).'

1) Is it possible to LOS these wounds?
2) Given that the rule states it is a shooting attack, if I deploy so that I block a unit LOS after Scout Moves, would said unit be prohibited from being a target of IID?
3) Are Cover Saves allowed to be taken against it if they would be better than Armour Saves (ie, 3+ armour save, but in Ruins with Shrouded for 2+ Cover)?
4) Is Jink allowed? I don't think it is since you don't roll to hit but it is a shooting attack all the same.

Thanks in advance

It depends what you mean by LOS. Since your questions imply both Look Out Sir and Line of Sight.

"... distributed as shooting hits ..." doesn't mean that it is necessarily a shooting attack, it just uses the rules specified.

@vipoid, I meant Look Out Sir for the first question and Line of Sight for the second

@Ghaz I'm a little confused, would that mean it's impossible to stop the effect going off by making sure no models are in sight of any models, (If possible that is) and therefore, Lias will always get this ability off at the start of the game?

1. You may LoS the wounds unless the rule says so.
2. Line of Sight is not required for this ability. The models closest to the designated unit would suffer the wounds first as per a normal shooting attack however.
3. Cover saves would be allowed unless denied for some reason.
4. Jink requires being targeted by a shooting attack. This does not appear to qualify.

The real question is this:
The Rule states to 'distributed as shooting hits,' even though it generates Wounds (?!), and if that the same as Allocating Wounds....

If the answer is Yes, then all Rule related to Allocating Wounds must be obeyed and any Rule which triggers off Allocating Wounds will still trigger.
If the answer is No, then how do we proceed not knowing what 'distribute as shooting hits' wants us to actually do...?

Good day, Dakka. Decided to bump this because I came up recently in a discussion. While this thread provides valuable answers, I would like some clarifications.

Fragile wrote:
3. Cover saves would be allowed unless denied for some reason.

What kind of cover saves are allowed and why?

I can't remember right now and I don't have access to the book (so please bear with me, I suspect that it has my answers), but aren't cover saves pretty much exclusive for shooting attacks? Alternatively, they may be just denied in assault (specifically stated in BRB), but otherwise can be taken against anything that doesn't specifically ignores them. Is that the case here?

If nothing stops cover saves from being taken, then how do we determine obstruction of target unit? Meaning, where do we draw line of sight from? I suppose that wound allocation method (let's assume that hit allocation actually mean wound allocation, otherwise we are stuck with possibly dysfunctional rule) stated in the rule is just that, allocation method, and it doesn't mean we must use closest Issodon's unit for determining cover. Since it's not Lias' shooting attack, I suppose that we don't use Lias himself for that too. Flat cover looks applicable if we assume that cover can be taken at all (stealth, shrouded, camo...), but what to do with standard "obscuring" cover?

I think that unless everything can be found in BRB I should mail FW, but since we are discussing existing RAW here, I would like to hear your opinion, guys. Thanks in advance.

Necro bumping a thread is frowned upon no matter what. It is always better to just make your own thread

 Barrogh wrote:
Good day, Dakka. Decided to bump this because I came up recently in a discussion. While this thread provides valuable answers, I would like some clarifications.

Fragile wrote:
3. Cover saves would be allowed unless denied for some reason.

What kind of cover saves are allowed and why?

I can't remember right now and I don't have access to the book (so please bear with me, I suspect that it has my answers), but aren't cover saves pretty much exclusive for shooting attacks? Alternatively, they may be just denied in assault (specifically stated in BRB), but otherwise can be taken against anything that doesn't specifically ignores them. Is that the case here?

If nothing stops cover saves from being taken, then how do we determine obstruction of target unit? Meaning, where do we draw line of sight from? I suppose that wound allocation method (let's assume that hit allocation actually mean wound allocation, otherwise we are stuck with possibly dysfunctional rule) stated in the rule is just that, allocation method, and it doesn't mean we must use closest Issodon's unit for determining cover. Since it's not Lias' shooting attack, I suppose that we don't use Lias himself for that too. Flat cover looks applicable if we assume that cover can be taken at all (stealth, shrouded, camo...), but what to do with standard "obscuring" cover?

I think that unless everything can be found in BRB I should mail FW, but since we are discussing existing RAW here, I would like to hear your opinion, guys. Thanks in advance.

Any cover save that does not require obstruction, aka Area Terrain types or Ruins.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Necro bumping a thread is frowned upon no matter what. It is always better to just make your own thread

Pretty much this. Thread locked, if you think it needs more discussion start a new one. Cheers mate