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The Wood elf book says that the Sisters of the Thorn count as a lvl 2 wizard that automatically come with two spells. For every rank of 5 the unit gets a plus one to cast, and that bonus stacks with the wood elves bonus for woods. But I see many people taking lvl 4 spellweavers, putting them in the unit with a Book of Ashur, and conferring the Sisters bonus onto the wizard, giving the wizard a potential +6 to cast in woods. Is this legal? Can the Sisters give their special ability to characters that join the unit?

In a word, no.

IIRC, their rules state that you select a Sister model to be the casting wizard (for both Line of Sight and possible Miscast). As the Spellweaver isn't a Sister, I think one would have a hard time justifying passing their bonus to another wizard.

It does state though that the "unit" gets the bonus. Would a character that joined a unit not count as a member of said unit?

I thought about how demons pink horrors work and I looked it up. They state that "it" gets the bonus. IMHO referring directly to the unit itself.

What do you think?

Characters are part of the unit once they join. But they aren't the unit.

So no good? But with the book and woods it can be +6?

Out of curiosity, how are you getting +6? +1 for the woods, +3 for the unit, +1 for the book... where's that last +1 coming from? are you trying to count the forest bonus twice?

No. Lvl 4, book, woods. :-)

 Icelord wrote:
So no good? But with the book and woods it can be +6?

No. The level 4 is not the unit. So she can only get the bonuses available to her. The book, the level, and the forest.

Level 4 + 1 for Book and + 1 for woods. +6 to cast. No shenanigans there, unless he is using the +6 for the Sisters, they should only be on +3 +1 for each rank.

 Icelord wrote:
The Wood elf book says that the Sisters of the Thorn count as a lvl 2 wizard that automatically come with two spells. For every rank of 5 the unit gets a plus one to cast, and that bonus stacks with the wood elves bonus for woods. But I see many people taking lvl 4 spellweavers, putting them in the unit with a Book of Ashur, and conferring the Sisters bonus onto the wizard, giving the wizard a potential +6 to cast in woods. Is this legal? Can the Sisters give their special ability to characters that join the unit?

This is the +6 I'm referring to. How are you getting +6 if you're counting the +3 from the Sisters? +1 from the book, +1 for being in woods, +3 for Sister, and then... what? Or are you saying you want to get +9 (level 4 + book + woods + Sisters)? It's not a big deal, and pretty much moot at this point, but I'm curious.

I should point out I agree with everyone else that the Sisters' bonus doesn't affect the Spellweaver, and the Spellweaver's bonuses do not apply to the Sisters.

The +6 setup for Level 4 + book + woods is legit. I do the same setup with my Dark and High Elf wizards (who get +1 to cast if they are using Dark/High magic, rather than +1 for being in woods).

Gotcha. Thanks guys!

That is an interesting idea, and I'm not sure it's as open-and-shut as that. There just seems to be a lot of confusion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Icelord, but are you asking if the Spellweaver gets +1 to cast per rank of Sisters?
I can see how that might become a question. If "the unit" gets +1 to cast per rank, and the Spellweaver joins the unit.

Then, we just need to prove whether or not the character is indeed part of the unit.
thedarkavenger, can you offer textual evidence of your statement?

A related question: say you've got 12 Sisters and 3 characters. The characters let you fill out that last rank for the extra +1 to cast?

Well unit in the text of the rule means the sisters of the thorn.

"Each time the UNIT casts a spell...you must nominate one Sister or Handmaiden as the caster"

So if you want to treat the Spellweaver as getting the bonus from the unit, then they are also forbidden from casting spells cause the unit has to cast from a Sister of the Thorn.

Well, how does the whole rule read, all together?

I'm not saying that I think that the character should get the Sister's bonus; just that, by RAW, someone could try to argue it.

That's being the originally point. It's poorly written.

What about the magic arrows? They say they are enchanted arrows. Can you take more than 1 of each per army?

That is a whole different issue. Enchanted arrows are Enchanted Items, and thus follow all the rules for such. Which would mean that you can't have more than one of them in each army...but how does that work when you have a unit of 10 Glade Guard? You buy the upgrade for each model, so isn't that 10 instances of the same Enchanted Item? And so on.
...if that's a question you want answered, start a different thread.

Can someone quote the Sisters of Thorn rule, in full? Because, from what I see here, the Spellweaver could get that bonus. Which is silly.

Deepwood Cover: A unit of Sisters of the Thorn is considered to be a level 2 wizard that knows the spells shield of thorns and curse of anraheir. This doesn't prevent other friendly wizards from knowing the same spells. The unit receives an additional +1 to cast for each rank of 5 or more models it has, after the first, to a maximum of +3. Each time the unit casts a spell (or is targeted by a special rule that affects a wizard), you must nominate one Sister or Handmaiden of the Thrown as the caster (or target) for the purposes of line of sight, range, etc. In the event of a sisters of Thorne unit rolling a miscast, do not roll on the Miscast table. Instead, the unit suffers D# wounds with no saves of any kind allowed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean the way I read the last line as well implies that the d3 wounds the unit takes from miscast could roll onto the wizard as well right? Say they had 1 guy left and miscast. Roll a d3 wouldn't the wounds carry over since the wiz is present. I don't see how they would stop... When the wiz miscasts and rolls the one where every wizard takes a strength six, clearly I think that 1 of the sisters would get hit too. The wiz is indeed a member of the unit so should be affected. It states the "unit" gets the bonus.

Warpsolution wrote:
Well, how does the whole rule read, all together?

I'm not saying that I think that the character should get the Sister's bonus; just that, by RAW, someone could try to argue it.

No. There's a difference between being part of the unit, and being the unit.

Being part of the unit is what characters do to the unit when they join.

The unit is what you pay the points for from the army book. Do you buy x Sisters of the thorn and X spellweavers as the special choice?

So then with their miscast the wounds would not poor over onto a wiz with them?

 Icelord wrote:
So then with their miscast the wounds would not poor over onto a wiz with them?

No. The unit is casting.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
No. There's a difference between being part of the unit, and being the unit.

Textual evidence, please.

Warpsolution wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
No. There's a difference between being part of the unit, and being the unit.

Textual evidence, please.

Where does it say that the level 4 is the unit?

Also, you buy each unit at the army list stage. When the level 4 becomes part of the unit, they're still not the unit. It's not so much textual, as basic knowledge of the language. Anyone who argues it is flat out wrong.

 Icelord wrote:
So then with their miscast the wounds would not poor over onto a wiz with them?

No, for much the same reason excess wounds from combat or shooting wouldn't roll over.

 Icelord wrote:
So then with their miscast the wounds would not poor over onto a wiz with them?

Not sure what you mean. Like...if there's two Sisters left, and the unit suffers a Miscast, and takes 3 wounds? I would have to say no. See below.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
When the level 4 becomes part of the unit, they're still not the unit. It's not so much textual, as basic knowledge of the language. Anyone who argues it is flat out wrong.

So, a character is part of the unit. Part of it. Like an engine is part of a car. No one argues that the engine somehow has an identity wholly independent and in no way influenced by that car. That's not a sound argument.
HOWEVER.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Where does it say that the level 4 is the unit?

Turns out: no where that I can find!

Characters do not "become part of the unit" anywhere that I can see. They "join units", which involves certain rules.

That, fellow Dakkalites, is textual evidence.