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So I was hoping this thread could be for people to discuss the pros and cons and different uses for the upgrades available to the infantry squads of the Imperial Guard.

I'm thinking things like which ranged/special weapons work best with what kinds of squad builds and when to use certain wargears like camo gear.

For starters, I have been toying with ideas for an IG allied detachment to go with SM. What would be some good options for gearing up a CCS and a Vet squad to be mounted in a Chimera? The CCS would camp a home objective and the Vets would support a Tactical squad with their Chimera.

Depending in the role of the squad (anti-infantry,armor,air,etc) they can be equipped with various heavy weapons including 1-4 meltaguns, plasmaguns, grenade launchers, flamethrowers, or upgraded with a heavy bolter, lascannon, mortar, or autocannon.

The strength in the guard is it's massive head count and the ability for officers to give orders allowing for some serious firepower advantages.

The other advantage of your command squads is the ability to carry a standard allowing (I believe) units within 12" can reroll failed leadership tests(?)

I'd think twice before taking CCS without a platoon to command. They're paying for orders and there's noone to use them in your list. As a pure backfield unit they're not worth it. Yep, they can bring MOO which is great but doesn't synergise well with short-ranged marines. Master of the fleet is handy from time to time but not very reliable with +1/-1 for reserves being on a ld check of 7.

If you're taking ig allies, why not take them for what your marines can't provide? Bodies, for example - so, platoon with conscripts and priests/comissars. Or an all-round shooty av14 wall - pasknisher with a squadron mate. Or a vendetta bringing in a squad of plazma/melta/flamer scions, for example.
If you want a chimera-vet support for your marines, why not just go for inquisition with acolites.

However, if you want exactly vets and ccs, there are a few avaliable options from the top of my head:

1. Backfield campers.
Vets with cammo cloaks, 3 sniper rifles and a heavy weapon.
CCS with cloaks, something like MOO and a heavy weapon.

2. Mid-board support.
Vets with 2 plazma/melta and probably 1 flamer in chimera/taurox/taurox prime. Could probably benefit from carapace armor or demolition doctrine but the melta charge is hard to pull off, so, you're basically paying for a s8 ap2 short-ranged large blast in most cases.
CCS with 2 plazma/melta and probably 1 flamer in chimera for orders. Could benefit from carapace or medic. But be aware that medic is quite expensive - 30 pts for fnp on t3 5+/4+ at best guyz.

3. Air Cav.
Vets with all plazma/melta/flamers in a valkirie. Carapace or demolitions once again.
CCS with all plazma/melta/flamers in a vendetta. Carapace.

As for platoon, it depends on what you want once again. It can camp the backfield/midboard with a bunchof heavy weapons - AC or LC with comissar or priest. They could have a good use of a couple of melta bombs, power axes and krak nades. However, as a SM player you'll have plenty of stuff to make all this upgrades not important. On the other hand, a platoon with like 20-30 krak nades is gona put an end to any MC earlier or later without fleeing thanks to comissars/priests.
And conscripts with a priest. Man, conscripts are one of the best tarpit unit you can think of. 3 pts per body is like paying for grots but conscripts to grots are like space marines to imperial guardsmen.

 koooaei wrote:
I'd think twice before taking CCS without a platoon to command. They're paying for orders and there's noone to use them in your list. As a pure backfield unit they're not worth it. Yep, they can bring MOO which is great but doesn't synergise well with short-ranged marines. Master of the fleet is handy from time to time but not very reliable with +1/-1 for reserves being on a ld check of 7.

If you're taking ig allies, why not take them for what your marines can't provide? Bodies, for example - so, platoon with conscripts and priests/comissars. Or an all-round shooty av14 wall - pasknisher with a squadron mate. Or a vendetta bringing in a squad of plazma/melta/flamer scions, for example.
If you want a chimera-vet support for your marines, why not just go for inquisition with acolites.

However, if you want exactly vets and ccs, there are a few avaliable options from the top of my head:

1. Backfield campers.
Vets with cammo cloaks, 3 sniper rifles and a heavy weapon.
CCS with cloaks, something like MOO and a heavy weapon.

2. Mid-board support.
Vets with 2 plazma/melta and probably 1 flamer in chimera/taurox/taurox prime. Could probably benefit from carapace armor or demolition doctrine but the melta charge is hard to pull off, so, you're basically paying for a s8 ap2 short-ranged large blast in most cases.
CCS with 2 plazma/melta and probably 1 flamer in chimera for orders. Could benefit from carapace or medic. But be aware that medic is quite expensive - 30 pts for fnp on t3 5+/4+ at best guyz.

3. Air Cav.
Vets with all plazma/melta/flamers in a valkirie. Carapace or demolitions once again.
CCS with all plazma/melta/flamers in a vendetta. Carapace.

As for platoon, it depends on what you want once again. It can camp the backfield/midboard with a bunchof heavy weapons - AC or LC with comissar or priest. They could have a good use of a couple of melta bombs, power axes and krak nades. However, as a SM player you'll have plenty of stuff to make all this upgrades not important. On the other hand, a platoon with like 20-30 krak nades is gona put an end to any MC earlier or later without fleeing thanks to comissars/priests.
And conscripts with a priest. Man, conscripts are one of the best tarpit unit you can think of. 3 pts per body is like paying for grots but conscripts to grots are like space marines to imperial guardsmen.

When inside a chimera, a CCS is indistinguishable from a veteran squad. So they're both a cheap and effect HQ choice for your ally detachment. Give them two plasma, heavy flamer, and an astropath for a great gun-taxi shooting out psychic shriek and plasma. Or go 4x melta guns for a super cheap BS4 hunter-killer unit.

I always thought putting a flamer on Veterans or Scions was a waste of BS4.

Having tested a bit, I think I am going to use a Tank Commander for my HQ and try to go the platoon route.

I really like the idea of maybe 2 Infantry, the PCS, and a Commissar with a few flamers and toys being used as a big expendable swiss army knife. Any advice on using an infantry blob as a midfield/multi-purpose unit would be welcomed.

I am also intrigued by the idea of a 10 man Stormtrooper squad in a Chimera and maybe some volley guns. Is there any merit to running them like this?

 ultimentra wrote:
I always thought putting a flamer on Veterans or Scions was a waste of BS4.

It is. Never mix your guns, always take 3x melta or 3x plasma.

 Peregrine wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
I always thought putting a flamer on Veterans or Scions was a waste of BS4.

It is. Never mix your guns, always take 3x melta or 3x plasma.

The heavy flamer is a special case because it's so freaking good, especially since your chimeras only have two fire points anyway. The heavy flamer has protected my command squad from assault multiple times, and it's a perfect counter attack weapon after an assault unit busts the chimera (not to mention overwatch when they assault the transport). Roasting Orks, Tau, Necrons, Eldar, Guard, and everything that isn't MEQ makes it incredibly worthwhile.

 TheSilo wrote:
The heavy flamer is a special case because it's so freaking good

No, it really isn't. Unless your opponents are stupid and blob up their models into perfect template formation you aren't going to get very many hits with a single heavy flamer, and you're wasting the squad if you're shooting at ideal flamer targets instead of ideal targets for the melta/plasma guns.

especially since your chimeras only have two fire points anyway.

You know you can disembark from a Chimera, right? The ability to disembark and deliver a third melta/plasma gun is far more useful than a "what if" option that will rarely do anything to justify its cost.

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
The heavy flamer is a special case because it's so freaking good

No, it really isn't. Unless your opponents are stupid and blob up their models into perfect template formation you aren't going to get very many hits with a single heavy flamer, and you're wasting the squad if you're shooting at ideal flamer targets instead of ideal targets for the melta/plasma guns.

You can't controle your assault moves. So the guyz will eventually get bunched up. And flamer overwatch is nice.

To OP.
If you want a tank commander, consider Pask.

People usually use him in a punisher or vanquisher. I like punisher more just cause of versatility. And as a SM player you generally don't have problems with popping av14 and tanks on the other side of the board. So, vanquisher wouldn't be that appealing.

I used to bring a tank squadron with my orkses back in 6-th edition when we were allies of convenience with IG. Before the new IG - AM codex, i brought a single exterminator with Pask and after the update i used:

Punisher [Pask, Melta Sponsons, Hull-mounted Lazcannon, Dozer]
Eradicator [HB sponsons, Hull-mounted HB, Dozer]

It's a versatile tool able to deal with anything. Split-fire orders help when you want to shoot at different targets and ld9 doesn't fail that often. Pasknisher is a tank able to hurt anything and eradicator is a relatively cheap shield and s6 ap4 ignore cover large blast. Dozer blades are not mandatory but they add to mobility. Cause you don't have much time to maneuvre around terrain with just a 6' move. The only real downside is Punisher's 24' range and vulnerability to enemy melta-drop. It's quite an expensive tank to loose or get avoided so positioning is very important.

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
The heavy flamer is a special case because it's so freaking good

No, it really isn't. Unless your opponents are stupid and blob up their models into perfect template formation you aren't going to get very many hits with a single heavy flamer, and you're wasting the squad if you're shooting at ideal flamer targets instead of ideal targets for the melta/plasma guns.

especially since your chimeras only have two fire points anyway.

You know you can disembark from a Chimera, right? The ability to disembark and deliver a third melta/plasma gun is far more useful than a "what if" option that will rarely do anything to justify its cost.

I'm hesitant to unload my T3, 4+ save, 120 point veteran squads until very late in the game. They almost never deploy unless the chimera gets wrecked or there is a prime heavy flamer target to roast. So between my desire to keep them embarked and their relative vulnerability to enemy fire, I'm probably only forgoing 1-2 shots of plasma per unit per game. And I guess my opponents are all stupid because those heavy flamers have scorched plenty of units right off the table.

If I run Veterans in a Chimera I will probably be loading 3 Meltaguns or 2 Melta and 1 Flamer on them. I think the 2:1 setup might not muddy their role too much because I intend them to be anti-transport/infantry more than pure anti-armor.

I think that I want my PCS squads to be Flamer Chimeras though. Is it a good tactic to have a PCS in a Chimera w/ 2-4 Flamers closely following your 20-30 man infantry blob up. Then having the Chimera move out front of the blob to make an advancing enemy charge a flame overwatch Chimera and then eat the surviving flamers if the Chimera is wrecked?

What are people's thoughts on the Demolitions doctrine for veterans?

I really like demolitions, but it has a chance to scatter back and kill your veterans. By throwing the demolition charge out of a transport or by aranaging your veterans in specific ways you can ruduce some of the potential loss, but you are still at risk. Even so I take them when I can and have much luck with them on both vehicles then assualting with melta bombs and well as taking out squads of terminators. For me it is worth the risk and points to have at least one squad use this doctrine.

I love love love Demolitions. The fact that everyone in the squad gets meltabombs makes the unit a huge threat to vehicles or MCs that aren't good in combat - it's one of the few ways I've managed to consistently kill Tervigons - and it pairs really well with meltaguns. If you take the points cost for buying a demo charge for a special weapons squad, you're paying one point per meltabomb, which is a fantastic deal. If I only take one unit of vets - and I try to get more in my lists - it's going to be a Demolitions unit.

With the reduced fire points on Chimera, I've found use for Boltgun, 2x Melta, Plasmagun, Autocannon.


Long range AT / Elite Infantry, use Plasma + AC... snap fire if need be.

Long range hordes use Plasma + Boltgun

Short range AT use 2x Melta

Short range Elite Infantry use Plasma + Melta

Short range Hordes use Plasma + Bolter


You have good options to deal with anything you run into, and by the time you disembark you're probably in range to use the Meltas against whatever you face. I find that Carapace is an excellent value for any Vet unit. Cheap, and with the large number of Flamers / other Ignores Cover weapons I find that the Carapace keeps them alive significantly longer than the points increase would normally allow.

I find they make great, flexible support for most anything.

Camo is nice, but I find Carapace to be more consistently useful.

Demolitions is great if you face Walkers, Monstrous Creatures, and dedicated assault squads. The Meltabombs for the big nasties, and the Demo Charge is AWESOME to follow up after someone punches your Chimera open. No consolidation move after punching out a vehicle.