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Is it possible to field bestmen characters inside warriors of chaos units?

Yup.

Just not with beastmen magic items

 namiel wrote:
Just not with beastmen magic items

Why not? If the answer is the debate of "Can you take army book specific magic items in a legions list?" I understand the debate & you have your view while I have mine.

edit: for those who don't know the debate is because the magic items say soemthing like "a beastmen army way take" but the glottkin book says something like "uses point cost, equiptment, options..." The debate is wether the glootkin book in stating "options/equiptment" overrules the armybook stating "any beastmen army". Because there is no precedent for one army book overruling another the issue is up for debate.

Yeah they can join the WoC units. Also they can take their Beast magic items. Glotkin clearly states they can "options" would include any magic items. Its the most recent rules hence they would be used. Same as Beast men ambush. The old book has rules for it but Glotkin clearly overrides that. Try to Ignore people hanging on to selective wording from old books. I can not attempt to assume why they'd clearly accept the new ambush rules yet say they cannot take magic items.

As I missed out on the hardcover books and now will be waiting for the softcover Glotkin, I was wondering what the very basics of the Legion list is?

Basically, can you freely take any & all units together in a Legions list? I was wanting to work towards a list along the lines of;

- mounted Chaos Lord + Knights
- couple of Tzheralds + Horror units
- Forsaken
- a few Chariots
- Exalt Flamer + 5 Flamers
- more Chaos Knights
- Chimera
- a few Screamers
- Grinder
- Burning Chariot

Is such a list possible? Granted I know there's some changes to how DoC work, but at least for now I was hoping to plan out a basic list...

@lobby

It's not that they're hanging on selectively. The debate is as old as time. Rules as Written Vs. Rules as Interpreted.

RaW is 100% rules as written no exceptions, no comp, no changes, no judging intent, BRB + Armybook + FaQ TO. THE. LETTER. This can be good as it eliminates debate most of the time.

RaI is more open. It allows for things like Glottkin was clearly (in my opinion) meant to override the restriction in the beastmen book. It needs players to come to agreement on things as we are trying to make a subjective decision based on perceived intent.

Both systems have their merits and whichever one you choose just follow it. The only players in the debate I can't stand are the ones who are RaW until it breaks the game in a way they don't like. Then they flip-flop.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
RaW is 100% rules as written no exceptions, no comp, no changes, no judging intent, BRB + Armybook + FaQ TO. THE. LETTER. This can be good as it eliminates debate most of the time.

I used to snarkily refer to the Semantics Phase of 7E, where people who wanted to ride RAW as hard as possible stumbled on GeeDub's disinterest in consistent language. See everything involving Magic Resistance in that edition, where a spell had to say "target" in order to activate it, hence spells that said "pick," "select," "nominate" and so on bypassed MR. Good times. As in not. Things mostly got better with 8E though.

As for the Glottkin debate, it seems silly to me to say that the BoC / WoC / DoC (heh, gifts) don't have access to their particular magic items, but I guess I see the argument in favor of disallowing it, and I hate the army concept and all it stands for, so fakk 'em I suppose? Really, Chaos Legions would ideally be played in friendly situations where everybody is cool with its existence, and so wouldn't be all revved up to slap that Beast Banner out of your poor BSB's hands.

- Salvage

@shas I see your point. I think they are selectively hanging on to old verbiage. Obviously the 7th ed Beast book was written with (what I can only assume) no idea that End Times would be a issue later down the line. Hence the wording for "only beastmen" can take their magic items. Makes sense in 2007-2008 it really does, that way their is zero confusion over who can take what. Fast forward to now. Obviously Glotkin is overriding what is in army books. Example Legions of Chaos list, new RoC table, new rules for ascendant games (obviously listed as agreed on only scenarios) and daemon summoning. All new things some of them clearly override old rules. Yet people want to selectively choose what is legal.
Sadly there is zero room for 100% RAW. The game wasn't written that way. They even say dice off if a weird situation comes up where no rule can clearly be determined. It seems to be a very small minority that want to crap on this and say "End Times isn't legal this or that" blah blah blah.
When in reality we have already seen 50% become standard, who knows what else will become standard going forward.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
@lobby

It's not that they're hanging on selectively. The debate is as old as time. Rules as Written Vs. Rules as Interpreted.

RaW is 100% rules as written no exceptions, no comp, no changes, no judging intent, BRB + Armybook + FaQ TO. THE. LETTER. This can be good as it eliminates debate most of the time.

RaI is more open. It allows for things like Glottkin was clearly (in my opinion) meant to override the restriction in the beastmen book. It needs players to come to agreement on things as we are trying to make a subjective decision based on perceived intent.

Both systems have their merits and whichever one you choose just follow it. The only players in the debate I can't stand are the ones who are RaW until it breaks the game in a way they don't like. Then they flip-flop.

The army books say that these items may be taken in XXXXXX army. A chaos legions army is not a beastmen, woc, or doc army. Now i see your point as RAI and it makes sense. What i remember of the glotkin saying is that they can take any items they are allowed in the brb not in the brb and armybooks.

Plain and simple this NEEDS an FAQ. Both sides of the argument have very valid points and IMO neither side has a stronger argument then the other. RAW clearly state that you cant do it but I dont believe that to be their full intentions. Thats why an FAQ must be done.

It says "uses point cost, equipment, options..."

To me either equipment or options includes magic Items. However I can totally see your point and agree it is equally as valid. I also feel my opinion is valid & as long as the two players agree I am ok with anyone using either system.

I also agree it needs a FaQ and holy hell did we just amicably resolve a disagreement on the internet? It truly must be the end times

Experiment 626 wrote:
As I missed out on the hardcover books and now will be waiting for the softcover Glotkin, I was wondering what the very basics of the Legion list is?

Basically, can you freely take any & all units together in a Legions list? I was wanting to work towards a list along the lines of;

- mounted Chaos Lord + Knights
- couple of Tzheralds + Horror units
- Forsaken
- a few Chariots
- Exalt Flamer + 5 Flamers
- more Chaos Knights
- Chimera
- a few Screamers
- Grinder
- Burning Chariot

Is such a list possible? Granted I know there's some changes to how DoC work, but at least for now I was hoping to plan out a basic list...

It is possible. 3+ ward save rerolling 1's Chaos Tzeentch lord FTW! But seriously DoC took a hit by losing DI and picking up Unstable. RoC has been revamped to not effect DoC units unless you roll a 2,3. or 4. Other than that most of the book remains unchanged. I'm actually in the stages of constructing a list of BoC, DoC, and WoC to use against my friend thats running UL with Nagash at 2500 pts. Herdstone plus 2 BS (shadow) with 3 pink horror units surrouding them is what I'm planning on using with one of the BS carrying the herdstone oc. My doombull is gonna be MoT with a 1+ 3++ save ASF and making extra attacks for each armor save he makes. Should be nasty!

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
It says "uses point cost, equipment, options..."

To me either equipment or options includes magic Items. However I can totally see your point and agree it is equally as valid. I also feel my opinion is valid & as long as the two players agree I am ok with anyone using either system.

I also agree it needs a FaQ and holy hell did we just amicably resolve a disagreement on the internet? It truly must be the end times

I thought the internet might explode if that ever happened......

Maybe it should happen more often since the internet wont explode should people stop arguing on it