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Did a search for this topic but turned up nothing. Can't imagine this is the first time this has been asked. I just recently reintroduced myself to the hobby after 15+ years so I'm a bit behind on my lingo which is probably why I can't find anything, so if there's a post that answers this question, please feel free to point me in the right direction.

I've been struggling with base coats in that they tend to create a textured "fuzz" on my models -- creating what seems like a nice rough stone kinda texture ("nice" if I were base coating scenery, not tac squads). The lighter the paint tone, the worse it is -- white being the worst -- which could be a huge pain in the ass when testing paint recipes for Imperial Fists, and is a nightmare for glazes and shades after the fact.

I live in sunny South Florida, and we drink our air here. I understand that could be a part of the problem, so I base coated inside in an air-conditioned garage. I left all doors/windows closed to further deter the humidity from fuzzing up my models and aired out the garage by opening the door (after I brought the models inside, and long after they were dry) thereafter. This fixed a bit of the problem, but I'm still looking for that smooth silky base coat -- especially for shading those details on the Fists without the shade catching on the "fuzz" texture.

As far as my base coating brand and process, I use the overtly expensive Citadel stuff (thus far I've tried Skull White, Zandri Dust and Chaos Black), shaking the can for approximately 2 minutes rather vigorously and I generally hold the base with a surgical glove in my left hand with my arm fully extended and spray from my right hand positioned close to me. I spray in intervals of about 1-2 seconds on the "front", "back", left, right, top/bottom front, top/bottom back. I try to be as light as possible to maintain as much detail as possible, and fix up any missed parts with a brush.

Is it the humidity? Is it my execution? Both? If indeed it is the humidity, any painting vets out there have any recommendations as far as base coats that may be better to use in humid locations? If its the execution, any pointers or tips?

Sorry if I'm a bit long-winded.

Can you post a picture? It might help more but, I think it would be humidity... then again I am a scrub so, pictures please.

Just took a few photos. Kinda hard to represent it in an image, but once I got the lighting in the right position, its very clear:



EDIT: Here's my attempt to paint an Imperial Fist through the "fuzz". Note - this was the first of 3 models I painted in 15 years. Kinda intimidating to post this among some amazing artists here. Also, I noticed you guys pack some fancy cameras. I'm rockin' a Samsung Galaxy S5, and I'm a terrible photographer. lol

3 Answers for this.

It is too humid where you are priming at, too cold, or the primer is just needs to be tossed.

Citadel primers are not that great IMHO.

Clean your minis before spraying to get any leftover residue.

 Sammoth wrote:
3 Answers for this.

It is too humid where you are priming at, too cold, or the primer is just needs to be tossed.

Citadel primers are not that great IMHO.

Clean your minis before spraying to get any leftover residue.

Humidity may certainly be a factor. I'm in South Florida. I figured being in an air-conditioned rooom with no windows/doors open to the outside (while spraying) would help me out, but as you can tell, no avail. I was thinking about using an airbrush and some watered down acrylics. Not sure if the result would be the same though. Still, I went ahead and got an Iwata Eclipse and am going to most likely get the Iwata Smart Jet compressor in a week or two. I also clean all of my models in warm, soapy water prior to base coating. I hear a lot of bad things about Citadel. Do you know of any other primers that may be a bit more resistant to the humidity? Will airbrushing help?

Also hear a lot of good things about Army Painter (specifically Daemonic Yellow in my case).

 hybridmoments82 wrote:

 Sammoth wrote:
3 Answers for this.

It is too humid where you are priming at, too cold, or the primer is just needs to be tossed.

Citadel primers are not that great IMHO.

Clean your minis before spraying to get any leftover residue.

Humidity may certainly be a factor. I'm in South Florida. I figured being in an air-conditioned rooom with no windows/doors open to the outside (while spraying) would help me out, but as you can tell, no avail. I was thinking about using an airbrush and some watered down acrylics. Not sure if the result would be the same though. Still, I went ahead and got an Iwata Eclipse and am going to most likely get the Iwata Smart Jet compressor in a week or two. I also clean all of my models in warm, soapy water prior to base coating. I hear a lot of bad things about Citadel. Do you know of any other primers that may be a bit more resistant to the humidity? Will airbrushing help?

Also hear a lot of good things about Army Painter (specifically Daemonic Yellow in my case).

Vallejo Surface Primer seems to be one of the better ones.

 Sammoth wrote:
Vallejo Surface Primer seems to be one of the better ones.

Do airbrush primers "react" differently to standard spray can primers when applied to the model?

Yes, as an airbrush uses air instead of another gaseous propellant, it will not react with the atmosphere. Any can, when used, will start to cool off dramatically because of the energy needed for the expansion of gas.

With an airbrush you will never have atmospheric frosting of fuzzying. But for basecoating, I find cans easier and quicker. Have you tried another brand, such as Army Painter? Or even a decent 'DIY' brand with water-based paint?

In case you would be tempted to get an airbrush; DO NOT buy a compressor without a tank or moisture trap, no matter the deal. Too many people make the mistake to get a cheaper kit without an a tank, but you will have an unstable airflow.

Get a kit like this: http://www.amazon.com/AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR--Airbrush-Published-Exclusively/dp/B001738DXU/ref=sr_1_2?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1416588541&sr=1-2&keywords=compressor+with+tank+and+airbrush

 Meph wrote:
Yes, as an airbrush uses air instead of another gaseous propellant, it will not react with the atmosphere. Any can, when used, will start to cool off dramatically because of the energy needed for the expansion of gas.

With an airbrush you will never have atmospheric frosting of fuzzying. But for basecoating, I find cans easier and quicker. Have you tried another brand, such as Army Painter? Or even a decent 'DIY' brand with water-based paint?

In case you would be tempted to get an airbrush; DO NOT buy a compressor without a tank or moisture trap, no matter the deal. Too many people make the mistake to get a cheaper kit without an a tank, but you will have an unstable airflow.

Get a kit like this: http://www.amazon.com/AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR--Airbrush-Published-Exclusively/dp/B001738DXU/ref=sr_1_2?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1416588541&sr=1-2&keywords=compressor+with+tank+and+airbrush

I haven't tried anything but Citadel sprays. Just ordered a can of Army Painter Daemonic Yellow (hopefully it will save some time painting Imperial Fists) in hopes that it will eliminate my fuzzing problem. What sprays do you use?

As for the airbrush, I bought an Iwata Eclipse grav fed airbrush and am looking at buying the Iwata Smart Jet (http://www.iwata-medea.com/products/compressors/smart-jet/). Seems like this has both (it better for that price!) but if you have a recommendation around that price range that might be better, let me know! This is my first leap into airbrushing.

You might also be holding the can too far away. More distance means more time for particles of paint to collect moisture on the way to the model.

This may help, and that looks to be humidity or too far away.


http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-i-prime-my-models-actual-steps.html

Oh wow, that's shockingly expensive for a compressor...ànd it has no air tank. AI've been using one such as I posted from amazon.com (but ordered from Germany, as I'm in belgium) and it's been happily purring away since 2008. I see no reason whatsoever for spending 6 times as much...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Darts-crafts&field-keywords=compressor%20with%20tank

As for spray cans I undercoat with Army Painter cans, just plain black. Basecoating I do with the airbrush.

As you'll be getting into aibrushing, I'll copy/pâste this from an earlier post fo mine:

You can easily test the waters with that, use it to speed up basecoating, apply washes, some rough shading on vehicles and such. And while developing your airbrush skills, you'll get a feel for your wants and needs of the equipment and upgrade accordingly at a later point.

If you look around, you can find good deals such as this http://www.amazon.com/Badger-Air-Brush-2020-2F-Gravity-Airbrush/dp/B000BROVIO/ref=sr_1_1?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1416589039&sr=1-1&keywords=badger+sotar+2020

Oh, and get this: http://www.amazon.com/Master-Airbrush%C2%AE-Airbrushing-Accessories-Airbrushes/dp/B00BT0G9DM/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1416588616&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=airbrush+empty+pots

You will want to keep your home-brew paint mixes, and they're great to shake your mixes as well.

Some other base equipment you'll need, and I'll go with the barebone, low-cost ones.

-The US equivalent for Klear floor polish: Pledge Future Polish This is a gloss varnish, that's cheap as hell and very good quality. You can use this as thinner for paints and inks, varnish seal before applying washes, etc. Any unwanted glossines is taken care of when your model is done and give it the protective satin or matte coat.

-Cotton sticks; they fit perfectly in the connector hole of a bottom feed airbrush to clean it.

-Demineralized water; the cheap, unscented kind used for ironing clothes. It's calcium free and thus perfect to thin paints and inks (i use a mix of demin. water and Klear), also to clean your airbrush after painting. Normal water can leave residue, and you want to keep your equipment in good health.

-A box of tight-fitting surgical or cleaning gloves. They have to be tight, so you can wear one on the one hand holding your models to you can get into every nook and cranny when basecoating and applying washes

-Airbrush cleaner: For a final cleanup when you're done, or for cleaning blockages, should they occur. When your airbrush clogs up (too thick paint or long sessions), you'll need to chase this through while moving the needle back and forth. ex. http://www.amazon.com/Badger-Air-Brush-Spectra-Tex-Additives-Airbrush/dp/B00462QCBE/ref=sr_1_3?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1416589515&sr=1-3&keywords=airbrush+cleaner

In short, after every session, and even in between a long session, you'll need to clean your airbrush as soon as you notice there is paint drying on the nozzle, diminishing the spray or producing droplets.

This may sound like a hassle but actually goes pretty fast once you're used to it; remove pot or wipe out cup, rinse well, put water or cleaner in the pot or cup, chase through until the liquid is coming out 100% clear, continue or pack up. The last thing you want is to take the airbrush apart in order to clean every inner part. Disassembly goes fast but it's a bitch to put a dual-action airbrush together again, the trigger consist of two-three tiny metal parts that have to fit together juuuust right or it won't work. You'll be bound to have to do this sooner or later, but it's best avoided as long as possible.

End wall of text

Reasonably priced Airbrush kits.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/Airbrushing-Supplies/Master-Performance-Series-Systems/

I have on occasion had "fuzzy marines" and could only identify two condition to cause it:

1) Spraying too far away (about 8" - 12" is about right) (paint dries prior to hitting miniature).
1a) Sub-section of this: line up your models, overspray into models farther away can cause this too.
2) High humidity tended to cause drying faster so you may have to spray closer than normal. Try not to prime after a rain storm!
3) To be safe keep both models and primer indoors then bring out into garage or wherever, shake the can THOROUGHLY and apply 2-3 thin coats of paint with about a 5-10 minute wait in-between.

I used army painter primer and found their white in particular more likely to go fuzzy on me.
The GW black primer is pricey but I never had a fuzzy miniature issue with it.
Good luck! Only thing worse than this is when I had primer confused with clear-coat... you only do that once.

Looks exactly like what I got here in Canada last Fall.

Humidity was not the problem, but I sprayed too far away that time.

Definitely use Talizvar's suggestion above though (keep them indoors, take them out to spray quickly then right back inside where you can control the environment better) and make sure you're at about 8" away.

FWIW, I use Walmart Colorplace spray cans and they work as well as any others I've used (for half the price or better, just very limited color selection).

If you have an airbrush, I find it's just better to use it for everything.

There's no reason to have cans of primer when you have better control and free XP when using the airbrush to do the job.

Plus it's generally a lot less toxic, etc.


As for the compressor, stick to the tank+compressor under 100€, it may need a bit of cooling for extended sessions but at least it doesn't cost an arm, a leg and your firstborn for slightly less noise.

@Meph: Appreciate the advice. I really have no idea what to look for as far as compressors go. I'm told to look for something that has a high PSI range as I hear that adjusting PSI is common and important depending on the job. That compressor for $90 certainly beats paying for a compressor that costs $240, but I hear it also depends on the paints you use as certain ones go for certain PSI. Anyway, don't wanna stray too far from the post topic, but I do appreciate the information. Thanks.

I have on occasion had "fuzzy marines" and could only identify two condition to cause it:

1) Spraying too far away (about 8" - 12" is about right) (paint dries prior to hitting miniature).
1a) Sub-section of this: line up your models, overspray into models farther away can cause this too.
2) High humidity tended to cause drying faster so you may have to spray closer than normal. Try not to prime after a rain storm!
3) To be safe keep both models and primer indoors then bring out into garage or wherever, shake the can THOROUGHLY and apply 2-3 thin coats of paint with about a 5-10 minute wait in-between.

I used army painter primer and found their white in particular more likely to go fuzzy on me.
The GW black primer is pricey but I never had a fuzzy miniature issue with it.
Good luck! Only thing worse than this is when I had primer confused with clear-coat... you only do that once.

@Talizvar: Thanks to yours and others' input, I think I'm narrowing down my problem to distance/humidity. I do worry about distance and tend to spray at arm's length in an effort to ensure that the base coat is properly thin and not obscuring any model detail. Makes sense that the paint may be drying mid-air, causing the fuzzy effect. I'm gonna try at a shorter distance and post some pics to compare. Thanks again!

As for the compressor, stick to the tank+compressor under 100€, it may need a bit of cooling for extended sessions but at least it doesn't cost an arm, a leg and your firstborn for slightly less noise.

@morgoth: That's it? An extra $100 just for some noise reduction?! Amazing. And to think I was buying an intermediate compressor! I see these things go up to the $600-700 range, and here I am thinking I'm buying a quality introduction to the compressor world. Sheesh! The additional 2 tactical squads I will now have budget for thank you immensely!

 Talizvar wrote:
I have on occasion had "fuzzy marines" and could only identify two condition to cause it:

1) Spraying too far away (about 8" - 12" is about right) (paint dries prior to hitting miniature).
1a) Sub-section of this: line up your models, overspray into models farther away can cause this too.
2) High humidity tended to cause drying faster so you may have to spray closer than normal. Try not to prime after a rain storm!
3) To be safe keep both models and primer indoors then bring out into garage or wherever, shake the can THOROUGHLY and apply 2-3 thin coats of paint with about a 5-10 minute wait in-between.

I used army painter primer and found their white in particular more likely to go fuzzy on me.
The GW black primer is pricey but I never had a fuzzy miniature issue with it.
Good luck! Only thing worse than this is when I had primer confused with clear-coat... you only do that once.

I live in a humid climate, as well. I agree with everything above. I also heat the can before shaking by running it under hot water.

 crazyredpraetorian wrote:


I live in a humid climate, as well. I agree with everything above. I also heat the can before shaking by running it under hot water.

A humid climate vet! I'm still on Citadel sprays. In your experience, what tends to be the base coats most resistant to humid climates as far as you can tell? Any experience with Army Painter? I'm painting a 2,000-point Imperial Fists army and hear that Daemonic Yellow base coat will significantly reduce time.

Well, that 90$ compressor goes from 0-100 psi

 Meph wrote:
Well, that 90$ compressor goes from 0-100 psi

Incredible. Still trying to navigate the difference between all of these compressors. Other than price they all seem the same, and customer reviews are near-identical from a $90 unit to a $300 unit. I'm beginning to wonder if price is really the only variable factor here......

I wouldn't worry too much about it. As I said, I'm perfectly happy with my 90$ model. It runs pretty quiet, never had any hickups in 6 years of use, and as it's going I'll probably be using it for a long time to come.

Look at it this way; say you buy the 90$ model, ànd it should break after only a few years, you won't have wasted a lot of money. And if, like mine, it does what it says on the tin without any problems, well, you've made a 90$ purchase that will last you more than a decade.

Personally, I think that its not so much the humidity in the air but in the paint. It seems that you are using colours that are rather hard to paint in general. Reds, yellows and whites tend to need to be thinned and painted in multiple coats. Even through an airbrush

So with that, it could be that you may not be thinning your paints enough. I find that when doing white and red on my Grey Knights, that I need to thin the paint to the the point where it flows from the tip of my brush like ink from a fountain pen (or one of those high end liquid ink pens).

Ill also wait between 10-15 minutes between layers because the thinner a layer of paint is, the more water content there is which means it takes longer to dry. Understand that if you paint on a layer that is half dry, you almost peel it off and that makes it clump in small clusters giving you the texture that you have.

I also agree that your primer may not be up to par. I use the P3 spray primer and swear by it. before priming, give the model a good scrub in some soapy, luke warm water and pat dry then air dry. That should help the primer go on smoother, allowing your paint to go on smoother and not catch on the microscopic edges.

It could also be that youre holding the can/airbrush too far away. If you hold it too far away, the paint/primer/whatever youre spraying acutally dries in the air before it hits the model. I generally hold my airbrush about 6-10 inches away and regulate the amount of paint that comes out (dual action brushes are da bomb).

 Dienekes016 wrote:
Personally, I think that its not so much the humidity in the air but in the paint. It seems that you are using colours that are rather hard to paint in general. Reds, yellows and whites tend to need to be thinned and painted in multiple coats. Even through an airbrush

So with that, it could be that you may not be thinning your paints enough. I find that when doing white and red on my Grey Knights, that I need to thin the paint to the the point where it flows from the tip of my brush like ink from a fountain pen (or one of those high end liquid ink pens).

Ill also wait between 10-15 minutes between layers because the thinner a layer of paint is, the more water content there is which means it takes longer to dry. Understand that if you paint on a layer that is half dry, you almost peel it off and that makes it clump in small clusters giving you the texture that you have.

I also agree that your primer may not be up to par. I use the P3 spray primer and swear by it. before priming, give the model a good scrub in some soapy, luke warm water and pat dry then air dry. That should help the primer go on smoother, allowing your paint to go on smoother and not catch on the microscopic edges.

It could also be that youre holding the can/airbrush too far away. If you hold it too far away, the paint/primer/whatever youre spraying acutally dries in the air before it hits the model. I generally hold my airbrush about 6-10 inches away and regulate the amount of paint that comes out (dual action brushes are da bomb).

I agree with all of the above. Humidity is definitely a factor, but I did note that I'm spraying way too far from the model (arms length). I thought this might make the base coat layer a bit lighter but it seems to have dried before touching down on the model which is causing that fuzziness. I also agree by talking to some other folks on here that Citadel may not be the best primer to use, particularly in a humid area. I'm gonna keep P3 on my radar. I just ordered a can of Army Painter Daemonic Yellow. Hopefully that gives me some solid results.

I'm going to try again tonight using some of the methods recommended in this thread and repost an image. Specifically:

1. Clean each model with warm soapy water, a toothbrush and let dry.
2. Spray in 1-2 second intervals from 6-10 inches away, let dry.
3. Repeat for 2-3 layers, waiting for each layer to fully dry before recoating.

If these steps work, or significantly reduce my fuzz, I will forever be grateful! Thanks so much for the tips, sir!

 hybridmoments82 wrote:
I'm going to try again tonight using some of the methods recommended in this thread and repost an image. Specifically:
1. Clean each model with warm soapy water, a toothbrush and let dry.

I find this is particularly useful for resin models and other model types that are not polystyrene: their mold release tends to stick on and is effective at keeping paint from sticking. Most can primers have solvents in them that reduces this issue.

2. Spray in 1-2 second intervals from 6-10 inches away, let dry.

Yes, this will vary on heat (closer) and humidity (closer).

3. Repeat for 2-3 layers, waiting for each layer to fully dry before recoating.

I have seen priming done where the initial coat barely covered the model and still seemed to work. The extra light layers help make it less work getting your block painting done.
If my primed miniatures sit around for a few days I tend to hit them with a large "blush brush" from the cosmetics section to ensure the dust is off.
Getting them on some stand (wine cork, pill bottle, pin vice) will keep the oily fingers from preventing washes from sitting right.

If these steps work, or significantly reduce my fuzz, I will forever be grateful! Thanks so much for the tips, sir!

We all hate the fuzzies, they must be abolished!

BTW on the compressor question, I got this one:

http://www.wayfair.com/GMC-Power-Equipment-6.3-Gallon-GMC-SYCLONE-6310-Ultra-Quiet-and-Oil-Free-Air-Compressor-SYCLONE-6310-GMC1002.html
$225 listed price, one of the quieter dual piston pumps out there: 60dB and no "pulsing" of the airbrush that I can detect.
How it is built is not pretty but it is solid!

For rattlecans..
From a shall we say "street painter" . When you think you have shook the can enuff, shake it some more..
Went by the local "can store" and asked some questions.
Surprisingly helpful lads..

Just finished a primer coat on another marine:



After following the instructions to the letter, smooth and no sign of fuzz at all. My base coating skills can certainly use a bit of work, but wow that's one smooth marine!!!! Can't wait to see how this takes to the Imperial Fists yellow recipe!

Glad to see it worked! Looks muc, much better!
Be sure to post up the completed Fist!

 hybridmoments82 wrote:

 crazyredpraetorian wrote:


I live in a humid climate, as well. I agree with everything above. I also heat the can before shaking by running it under hot water.

A humid climate vet! I'm still on Citadel sprays. In your experience, what tends to be the base coats most resistant to humid climates as far as you can tell? Any experience with Army Painter? I'm painting a 2,000-point Imperial Fists army and hear that Daemonic Yellow base coat will significantly reduce time.

I have used the Army Painter red(Blood Red equivalent) and purple, both had nice results. I have not used their yellow. If it works, it will certainly save you tons of time.

 hybridmoments82 wrote:

@morgoth: That's it? An extra $100 just for some noise reduction?! Amazing. And to think I was buying an intermediate compressor! I see these things go up to the $600-700 range, and here I am thinking I'm buying a quality introduction to the compressor world. Sheesh! The additional 2 tactical squads I will now have budget for thank you immensely!

Well, noise reduction and better build quality, but basically once you cool it down with 3x 120mm PC fans connected to an old PC power supply, there's no real difference.

By comparison with a smartJet, my 100 bucks compressor maybe makes slightly more noise (not even sure), has a tank so produces much better airflow, and with my ghetto rigged cooling I'm sure it'll outlast a smartjet in long sessions and maybe even life time (unless a mechanical part breaks before an electronic one, who knows... even if I have to buy two it'll still be cheaper to boot and much less than a brand compressor with a tank).