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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/28 07:40:51
Subject: [1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Hello!
I'm an beginner (although I was in W40K for a while reading codexes - my favourite lecture) and I would like to ask for some help regarding my SM list.
The list so far:
Librarian (Level 1.)
Telephaty
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Tactical Squad (5)
Razorback - Lascannon
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Tactical Squad (5)
Razorback - Lascannon
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Tactical Squad (5)
Razorback - Lascannon
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Tactical Squad (10)
Rhino
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Stormtalon Gunship
Typhoon Missile Launcher
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Predator
Triple lascannons
40 spare points
I dont know what to do with the spare points (yeah i know that most people would kill for few spare points  ).
I could get myself level 2 psyker or go all out and get some fancy heavy weapons for Razorback infantry (the Rhino one i expect to be in movement a lot).
But what heavy weapons (if any) to get? What do you think i lack? Maybe go for heavy bolter and grab myself Imperial Fist "bolter drill"? Or grab some multi-meltas to get them some better AP firepower and designate them to emergency tank hunting duty?
What's your opinion?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/28 08:00:58
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
PNW
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With the Razorbacks, you're more likely going to advance 6" to still shoot without Snap Fire on the tanks. Meanwhile, your squads aren't necessarily doing anything until they disembark onto an objective. If you keep the squads hanging back, give them a Heavy weapon; if you want them more aggressive, choose a Special weapon.
Chapter Tactics will be important and benefit from your playstyle and army composition. Currently, your army doesn't tailor specifically to any Chapter Tactics. If you choose Raven Guard, you can Scout move all your Tactical Squads before the game begins which could position them halfway across the table and start taking side armour shots (situational). Iron Hands could also work well to give your vehicles additional resilience and a mechanized gunline.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/28 12:17:31
Subject: [1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
Northern Texas, USA
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Downgrade the Stormtalon to skyhammer missiles, give the rhino Tac squad a melta and combi-melta and melta bombs so they can kill enemy transports when fighting over an objective. I also like the idea of Raven Guard CTs so you can scout all your tactical marines up. You could also sit the 5 man squads back a little out of the Razorbacks with a lascannon. Plus, the scout move can get them on an Objectove early and they can provide additional support that way. I don't like lascannons on the Razorbacks though in that case because you have the lascannon predator. I would take some assault cannons on the Razorbacks. Other than that, looks pretty solid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/28 14:45:33
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Why would I downgrade Tyhpoon to Skyhammer
It seems like a solid weapon that can kill a medium tank or shoot off few marines while giving you tactical advantage versus weaker enemies as it can put some BS 5 blasts on them.
I dont know about giving meltas to the 10 man squad - it seems like a waste of firepower to have 8 guys just stand there looking at tank menacing. I think same way about Razorbacks - isn't having a mobile weapon platform better than having 5 man squad sitting with their thumbs up their power armor rear waiting for one guy to shoot his lascannon? The way i thought about multi-melta is to add some high power shot to overall firepower (as it has same range as bolter) while being able to pop a transport or two. I could give them those 2 lascannons but isn't that few lascannons too much? How many high AV vehicles will I face in 1000 points game?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/28 14:49:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/28 20:29:59
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
PNW
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The Skyhammer is effective at keeping distance while shooting at air targets, then you can target light vehicles. You have to change flight modes to Hover if you want to hit infantry with Typhoon shots, and then you're better off taking Missile Launchers with your squads.
The excess bolter-marines may feel wasteful to tailor with specialized weapons, but when MCs and/or tanks are very numerous and resilient, the fight calls for the specialized weapons more than the general small arms. If Vehicles were "rare" in the armies of 40K, then it would be doubtful that players would spam AT firepower as much as they do and instead, take Flamers and Plasma. With Transports providing protection against most small arms, you need to crack the armour before you shoot the squishies. The extra models in the unit essentially act as extra bullet catchers to keep the specialists alive when they are positioned in front to bodyguard.
When you take a Multi-melta, Meltagun, and Combi-melta on a squad of 10 in the Rhino, you Combat Squad them, and divide your weapons. Either put all the meltas in one 5-man unit and 5x bolter-marines alone to target infantry; or keep the Heavy weapon separated from the mobile Meltagun, etc. to stand and shoot and perhaps hunt a second target. It provides flexibility.
You want the Multi-melta within 12" to kill heavy tanks by increasing the chance of getting a Penetrating hit, which can increase the chance of exploding the target since it's AP1 and adds +2 to the roll. One shot can result in a destroyed vehicle, or you can Glance the tank to death with multiple shots. Once the tanks are dead or rendered inoperable, use your remaining bolter-marines to kill squishies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/28 22:10:26
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Dont you waste the bolter shots if you fire multi-melta at transport? I thought that when one model shoot at something rest of the squad have to shoot at it or just lose phase if they cant or are unable to wound. Or do you mean other squad?
I can just give every squad one multi-melta to get them some firepower. Points are right. But is Typhoon really that bad? I didnt know that you have to go hover mode to shoot blast missile. If thats the case I get additional spare points (60 total). Maybe I should get my squads in Razorbacks one lascannon each likex THExCLINCHERx suggested. But I'm really afraid of getting my arse kicked by regular infantry - sure I have some fancy high tech but it wont save me from an old fashion clobbering if you get what I'm saying.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/28 22:11:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/28 23:51:42
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
PNW
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Your bolter shots would be wasted if you target something that they are unable to cause damage against. If you want dedicated roles, like the Predator 'annihilator' pattern with only Lascannons for example then you can take that.
You could use your Tactical Squad with Multi-melta against infantry as well, the weapons will just vaporize most targets. If your army lacks AT firepower, your opponent will keep his vulnerable squads embarked to avoid casualties.
Your Stormtalon doesn't have to go into Hover mode to shoot with blast weapons since it chooses to use Skyfire (or not) to engage various targets. It's a good counter-air (and skimmers) unit, and when the skies are clear, then you can switch roles. Hover mode allows you to adjust without turning and moving a considerable distance to line up a target and not fly off. Regardless of flight mode, if you choose to Jink, you won't be able to use your Frag rounds, whereas a non-blast can still Snap Fire.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/28 23:54:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/29 14:42:45
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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What about grav weapons? ?I heard two different sides telling different stories about them and yelling at each other...
Is heavy bolter worth it? It seems moderate if you compare it to multi-melta since it's the same points cost.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/29 23:57:25
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
Northern Texas, USA
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Kruczysko wrote:Why would I downgrade Tyhpoon to Skyhammer
It seems like a solid weapon that can kill a medium tank or shoot off few marines while giving you tactical advantage versus weaker enemies as it can put some BS 5 blasts on them.
I dont know about giving meltas to the 10 man squad - it seems like a waste of firepower to have 8 guys just stand there looking at tank menacing. I think same way about Razorbacks - isn't having a mobile weapon platform better than having 5 man squad sitting with their thumbs up their power armor rear waiting for one guy to shoot his lascannon? The way i thought about multi-melta is to add some high power shot to overall firepower (as it has same range as bolter) while being able to pop a transport or two. I could give them those 2 lascannons but isn't that few lascannons too much? How many high AV vehicles will I face in 1000 points game?
The reason I like the skyhammer missiles on the Stormtalon are:
1) it's a 2 hull point vehicle, that will most likely jink after the turn it arrives or drop to hover for a second round of shooting before blowing up.. So you can't fire a template if jinking and its a very expensive upgrade for only one extra strength
2) the S7 missiles and S6 assault cannon pair well together for damaging the same types of targets. You're wounding most infantry, bikes, etc on 2s with these anyway, and these fliers are best suited against FMCs/light fliers or infantry. If this is your sole source of anti vehicle you're in trouble.
As for the melta recommendation on the Tac squads, it comes down to how you're going to want to use them. First of all, you combat squad in the rhino, one group has the melta, combi-melta, melta bombs and maybe a multimelta, and throws a krak grenade.. That hopefully breaks open a transport and then the other squad shoots 10 bolter shots or 8 and another grenade at the contents; it's a good strategy. At 1000 points you'll probably be using your Tac marines to fight over an objective where another enemy transport and troop await.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/30 09:04:55
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Ok now I get the point about Skyhammer though how many times will I be in range of Assault cannons?
But the transport vehicles are low AV, aren't 5 krak grenades enough to break that sort of vehicle open? It's like using a hammer to squash an beetle - sure it looks armored but the armor is paper.
I could exchange one Tactical squad for a Devastator
That would leave my other squads mobile while getting all heavy weapons I want. If I wanted more anti-armor - Lascannons or Multi-melta and against swarms like Tyranids, Orks, Daemons or IG some HB and PC for SM and CSM.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 09:05:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/02 03:19:30
Subject: [1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Bounding Assault Marine
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You will almost always be in range with the assault cannons. 36" move plus a 24" range means you can hit a target that is 5 feet away. You would be hard pressed to find a situation where they weren't in range.
Plus, the assault cannons are more than half the fire power so you will always be wanting to fire them.
I think the skyhammer missiles work well with the assault cannon because they are both AP 4 and you get 3 shots instead of 2. Plus I feel the typhoons are prices too high.
Best of luck!
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2000+
"Can we stop saying CCSM and CSM to just say CSM and SM? I mean really, don't we already know they have a codex? Plus my colon key is broken." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/02 15:47:35
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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How would a Devastator squad with 4 PC's fare? I like how they look and i don't think they would be of any use for Tacticals. I think I'm going to exchange 1 Tactcial Squad for a Devastators one with 4 PC's or just give my Tacticals a Heavy Bolter to get some snapfires with Imperial Fists tactics.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/02 16:22:47
Subject: [1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant
England
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Drop the Razorbacks for Rhinos or Drop Pods and give the Tac squads the lascannons. Plasma cannon devs are great, they can kill anything infantry.
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If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me! Believe in the Dakka who believes in you! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/02 19:11:00
Subject: Re:[1000] - Space Marines - What to do with this mess?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I don't like drop pods. I could grab some Rhinos and save some serious points on that but that would leave me at tactical infelxibility as I would either kill infantry closing on my troops or shoot (if i even can hit it cause lascannon is heavy) just one tank wasting whole lot of bolter shots while with Razorbacks I can not only shoot that tank with a twin-linked lascannon - I do that from a mobile platform while my squad can get out and start killing.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/02 19:11:53
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