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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




How would this work?

Do you disembark and then terror from the deep or do you just disembark?

You don't have to be happy when you lose, just don't make winning the condition of your happiness.  
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

The Mawloc is not deep striking

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




So what is the Mawloc doing?

Also, the first rule says 'when a Mawloc arrives from deepstrike reserves, it can deepstrike ...', which it does imo.

You don't have to be happy when you lose, just don't make winning the condition of your happiness.  
   
Made in gb
Confessor Of Sins





Newton Aycliffe

 Happyjew wrote:
The Mawloc is not deep striking


The Mawloc only disembarks. Happyjew is correct.

DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




Okay. Fine by me, would've been stupidly OP anyway. :-P

You don't have to be happy when you lose, just don't make winning the condition of your happiness.  
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon





Nottinghamshire- England

Sorry, how has it not Arrived from Deep Strike Reserve?

The Unit and its transport was in reserves, and they have both arrived VIA Deep Strike.

Am I missing something o.O?

Grimtuff wrote: GW want the full wrath of their Gestapo to come down on this new fangled Internet and it's free speech.


A Town Called Malus wrote: Draigo is a Mat Ward creation. They don't follow the same rules as everyone else.
 
   
Made in dk
Infiltrating Prowler






 Bloodhorror wrote:
Sorry, how has it not Arrived from Deep Strike Reserve?

The Unit and its transport was in reserves, and they have both arrived VIA Deep Strike.

Am I missing something o.O?


The transport arrived by deep strike. The Mawloc disembarks from a unit that arrived from reserve. Technically speaking, they both come from reserve but only the transport enters via deep strike.
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon





Nottinghamshire- England

So... Regardless of how the Transport arrives, the unit inside always arrives from reserves, not deep strike reserves?

Grimtuff wrote: GW want the full wrath of their Gestapo to come down on this new fangled Internet and it's free speech.


A Town Called Malus wrote: Draigo is a Mat Ward creation. They don't follow the same rules as everyone else.
 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





Quite simply, Mawloc comes up from the ground, Tyrannocyte comes out of the sky.

Terror from the sky.

Or maybe the Mawloc gets out mid flight. But would probably die on impact.

   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon





Nottinghamshire- England

leaping out with his mouth wide open and landing on a squad of dudes would be pretty immense....

Grimtuff wrote: GW want the full wrath of their Gestapo to come down on this new fangled Internet and it's free speech.


A Town Called Malus wrote: Draigo is a Mat Ward creation. They don't follow the same rules as everyone else.
 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





Catching flys on the way down
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Sorry, how has it not Arrived from Deep Strike Reserve?

The Unit and its transport was in reserves, and they have both arrived VIA Deep Strike.

Am I missing something o.O?


It has arrived from Deep Strike Reserves. However, while implied, embarked models do not Deep Strike.

Even if RAW this were legal, as a Nid player I wouldn't attempt it. Sometimes, you do need to apply common sense when gaming.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





LaPorte, IN

So now DE can deep strike raiders and assault out of them because the passengers didn't arrive via deep strike?
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 NecronLord3 wrote:
So now DE can deep strike raiders and assault out of them because the passengers didn't arrive via deep strike?


No, because they still arrived from Reserves.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





LaPorte, IN

No they arrived by disembarking from an open topped transport.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

And they and that vehicle arrived from Reserves.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





LaPorte, IN

So too would a Mawloc arriving in a Tyrannocyte.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 NecronLord3 wrote:
So too would a Mawloc arriving in a Tyrannocyte.


The Mawloc is arriving from Deep Strike Reserves, however, it is not Deep Striking (which is part of the requirements for TftD).

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





LaPorte, IN

P.162 clearly states that arriving via Deep Strike is some times called arriving from Deep Strike Reserve.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Happyjew wrote:
 NecronLord3 wrote:
So too would a Mawloc arriving in a Tyrannocyte.


The Mawloc is arriving from Deep Strike Reserves, however, it is not Deep Striking (which is part of the requirements for TftD).


Not sure if it matters in the particulars of this discussion, but I don't think the Mawloc is technically arriving from Deep Strike Reserves when it arrives on a transport that Deep Strikes. For a unit to be arriving from Deep Strike Reserves, that unit itself must be designated as Deep Striking when placed in reserves, i.e. " When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike".

So you could put the Mawloc in Deep Strike Reserves by saying the Mawloc is Deep Striking in which case the Mawloc rolls separately to come in from Deep Strike Reserves and Deep Strikes separately from the Tyrannocyte.

If the Mawloc comes in as a passenger on the Deep Striking Tyrannocyte, the Tyrannocyte is technically coming in from Deep Strike Reserves and the Mawloc is coming in technically from Reserves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/29 00:48:41


 
   
Made in ca
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




Ontario, Canada

There's some miscommunication going on here between necron lord and happyjew.

NecronLord, here's is the order of events that happyjew is describing to you:

- Tyrannocite and Mawloc are being held in deep strike reserve
- The Tyrannocite arrives from deep strike reserve via deep strike.
- The Mawloc arrives from deep strike reserve embarked on the Tyrannocite. He does not Deep Strike.
- Since the Mawloc's template only works when he has arrives via deep strike (not just from deep strike reserve) he is not allowed to use the template and disembarks normally from the tyrannocite.

In your example:
- A squad of wyches with a raider is placed in deep strike reserve
- The raider arrives from deep strike reserve via deep strike.
- the wyches arrive from deep strike reserve embarked on the raider. They do not deep strike.
- The wyches are disallowed from charging because they have just arrived from reserve. (arriving from ANY type of reserves disallows charging)

Edit - I believe col_impact is correct, the transports would be placed in deep strike reserve, the units they are transporting would simply be in reserve. You are only required to inform your opponent that the squad is embarked on the transport and that the transport will be deep striking.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/11/29 01:10:20


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






any model that is inside a transport is described as being "removed from the table" until it disembarks. this is something to remember for this discussion.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



chicagoland

I can't believe this is actually being discussed
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





sangheili wrote:
I can't believe this is actually being discussed

Welcome to Dakka Dakka.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



chicagoland

 Nilok wrote:
sangheili wrote:
I can't believe this is actually being discussed

Welcome to Dakka Dakka.

yeah some people want the cake and eat it too.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

To be fair though,
The question of what the Embarked Unit is actually doing when the Transport Deep Strikes is very debate worthy.

Not only are there many implications, regardless which answer one's side supports, but the Rules do have problems to begin with. Don't just take a look at the wording of the Deep Strike Rule, though it is concerning, but also look at the terrible formatting used within this Rule. In order to read every Deep Strike related Rule you would need to flick through a dozen different locations within the Book, because the Authors felt certain elements where more specified to things like 'Arriving from Reserves' or what Unit Type the Deep Striking Model possess, so they are located in those areas of the book.

The biggest head-ache I have of all is the fact this is a Rule which over-writes other Advanced Rules, no word on how this is legally possible, and then requires you to follow instructions in the Rule which is no longer being applied. This would not be much of a problem in a better written system, though any Game System should avoid it entirely, by including a set of instructions informing us exactly which parts of the other Rule are being utilized. Yes, 'Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves,' I am looking at you. Does the instructions 'as specified in the Rules for Reserves' mean just the D6 and how to determine if something is Arriving, or does it also includes the moving instructions within this section of the book?

Others have used that clause as a piece of evidence that Deep Strike is movement, so very important to know....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 17:50:47


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



chicagoland

JinxDragon wrote:
To be fair though,
The question of what the Embarked Unit is actually doing when the Transport Deep Strikes is very debate worthy.

Not only are there many implications, regardless which answer one's side supports, but the Rules do have problems to begin with. Don't just take a look at the wording of the Deep Strike Rule, though it is concerning, but also look at the terrible formatting used within this Rule. In order to read every Deep Strike related Rule you would need to flick through a dozen different locations within the Book, because the Authors felt certain elements where more specified to things like 'Arriving from Reserves' or what Unit Type the Deep Striking Model possess, so they are located in those areas of the book.

The biggest head-ache I have of all is the fact this is a Rule which over-writes other Advanced Rules, no word on how this is legally possible, and then requires you to follow instructions in the Rule which is no longer being applied. This would not be much of a problem in a better written system, though any Game System should avoid it entirely, by including a set of instructions informing us exactly which parts of the other Rule are being utilized. Yes, 'Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves,' I am looking at you. Does the instructions 'as specified in the Rules for Reserves' mean just the D6 and how to determine if something is Arriving, or does it also includes the moving instructions within this section of the book?

Others have used that clause as a piece of evidence that Deep Strike is movement, so very important to know....


It's plain black and white man. You put mawlok inside the drop pod thingy. THE DROP POD DEEP STRIKES. mawlok comes out and shoots or borrows. Idk what people are arguing. And don't say it's poor GW rule writting cuz it's not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 18:19:26


 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

Sangheili,
When one formats a Rule so its individual clauses are located in a dozen different places....
How is that not bad Writing in and of itself?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/30 19:16:31


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

 Nilok wrote:
sangheili wrote:
I can't believe this is actually being discussed

Welcome to Dakka Dakka.


and how some like to bend/interpret rules.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





the transport arrived by deep striking, the model is disembarking from a deep striking transport.

the act of arriving by deepstrike calls out RAW that is has to deploy as per deepstrike, if you are not using the rules for deploying by deepstrike then by the rules as written you have not arrived by deepstrike.

there is no rules basis that the embarked model is arriving by deepstrike, or even counts as arriving by deepstrike, because it has not met the requied deploying by deepstrike rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 16:13:46


 
   
 
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