Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just looking through the IA13 book, particularly at the 'Chaos Scions' option when you take a Bloody Handed Reaver as your Demagogue and upgrade your Veteran units. The renegade versions actually stands up really well, and has a couple of big advantages.

Militarum Scions
- 130pts for 10 including Tempestor
- Carapace Armour, HS Lasguns, two specials
- WS3, LD7/8
- Can take Taurox Primes as Dedicated Transport
- Deep Strike, Move through Cover, Orders

Renegade Scions
- 125pts for 10 including Champion
- Carapace Armour, HS Lasguns or HS Laspistols, CCW, two specials
- WS4, Random Ld
- Can take Chimeras as Dedicated Transport
- Chaos Covenant (Marks), no Orders, may swap Carapace Armour for Deep Strike/Tank Hunters etc etc.

So, you lose Orders and mandatory Deep strike, but you get the option of Chimeras instead of Tauroxes, and the very nice combination of Hotshot Laspistols, CCW and BS4 (and Rage from the Covenant of Khorne if you want) which might be a really good combination. Plus, you get to take them as troops while retaining all the cool Imperial Guard stuff in the same detachment. On the other hand, you have the random Ld value, and you can't take 5-man squads with two special weapons.

May be a better option if you're planning on a Mechanised Storm Trooper army, where Deep Strike doesn't really matter?

..

If deep strike doesn't matter, why not compare them to a vet squad with carapace armor. Three specials and the can take a Chimera.

Why am I not seeing Renegade Scions in the army list. Can you tell me what page to find them?

they're an upgrade to Veterans

You can give Renegade Scions both the 2 special weapons and 2 hot shot volley guns.

I was thinking of running an Arch Demagogue with 2 plasma pistols, and a Covenant of Tzeentch in a squad of Grenadiers with a plasma pistol on the champ, 2 plasma guns, 2 hot volley guns outflanking in a chimera.

Not very points efficient, but I like the idea of that many Ap2 and Ap3 guns, coming on hitting a key unit, then if charged overwatching at BS2.

Mavnas wrote:If deep strike doesn't matter, why not compare them to a vet squad with carapace armor. Three specials and the can take a Chimera.

Well, I guess the main difference between Carapace Vets and Scions (apart from DS) is the access to AP3 guns. In a regular Renegade army, you can take Vets (just like in a regular AM army) but they're not a great comparison - AM Vets are a lot more points efficient.

techsoldaten wrote:Why am I not seeing Renegade Scions in the army list. Can you tell me what page to find them?

It's the 'Bloody Handed Reaver' Demagogue Devotion. If your Demagogue takes it, your Veterans can be upgraded to BS4 with Hotshot weapons.

King Pyrrhus wrote:You can give Renegade Scions both the 2 special weapons and 2 hot shot volley guns.

Aha - didn't notice that. I expect that might be FAQd, though...

Just FYI, there's a really good breakdown of Chaos Renegade tactics available at the following link:

http://www.thediceabide.com/2014/10/chaos-renegade-tactics-whos-your-demagogue/

This includes a chart that shows you all the options you get with different demagogues / devotions. There's also a really cool image for a bloody handed reaver there.