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So hi! As you've probably been able to tell I'm interested in starting a High Elves army. The only thing is I know nothing about fantasy. I've played 40k for about a year now and I've collected about 3000 points of BA. All I really need is to know what units are good and what I should buy then I'll be set. Hope you guys can help, thanks!

Pretty much all their units are viable choices with High Elves offering probably the most tactical flexibility out of all the WHFB armies at least IMO.

The biggest thing is figuring out what style of army you want to play...Gunline, Magic Heavy, Outrider army (all cav), monster mash, etc. Once you've got that hammered out, I can give more specific recommendations. What's your meta like?

The High Elves book is great because there aren't a lot of bad choices, to be honest. I would stay away from the T4 chariots, but other than that, you really can do whatever you want with the army. Some popular builds you see are...

1. Gunline: lots of archers, sisters, bolt throwers, defensive units
2. Cav bus: huge bus of silver helms with lots of characters in it. Auxiliary units support the cav bus.
3. Monster mash: lords on dragons or phoenixes, phoenixes in rare.

The most common list you'll see is a fairly balanced approach: a unit of cav in core or special, a block of special infantry, a few archer units, some bolt throwers, maybe a phoenix or some eagles. Archmage is a popular lord choice, but the loremaster and prince are also very good.

If you are looking for an in-depth look at every unit, I would check out this 8th ed HE handbook on Ultuan.net:

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=48198

1d4chan also has a good page on the current book:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/High_Elves

Hey im just starting out too! Still debating between lizardmen (cuz dinosaurs) and high elves.

My theoretical army for HE is a very fast hard hitting army. To this end i want to do a Prince on Eleven Steed in a large redgiment of Dragon Princes, have two units of silver helms and an additional dragon prince regiment. Then in rare id pop a Phoenix whose goal would be to keap up with my cavalry and fly over targets to try and soften them up for a pincer calvalry charge. Not sure how that would go point wise but any additional room would probably go towards archers for holding objectives and harrying my Cavalry's charge target.

Sorry for bad grammar. My phone is evil.

I've only played a few games, and have a small collection, but some things are obvious.

I've been trying MSU infantry (lots of units of 10-20 on foot) is a lot of fun, but not very effective. High Elves need large units to make Core effective. Sword Masters can do work that way (only first rank gets 2 attacks), but anything else gets outclassed or swarmed. A lot of fun when you do manage to substanially multicharge, though. Got 4 units to charge a WoC foot knight bus, and it was glorious. But there are more effective strategies.

It may just be my dice, but lvl4 + Book has lost more Magic phases than he's won. And he's usuallt up against a lvl1 or 2. So not nearly as reliable as I thought he'd be.

Flamespyre is fun (if I'm going to field a Phoenix, its gonna buurrn!). Doesn't do a ton (never won combat, even against the chaff I send it against), but omg bird of fire!

Fun, elite choices. Apparently some downright broken choices/matchups, but lots of toys for a good slugfest.

DE are glass cannons who blast people away.
WE are paper skirmishers who never let the opponent choose a good engagement.

HE are elitest linesmen. We win by perfection.
Our line infantry is more skilled than any other (i5 ASF, extra rank), but no stronger/tougher. Well provisioned too. But we pay for all that. Equal points of State Troops and Eldar Spearmen meet face to face, and the Spearmen aren't going to clean their clocks. So we need to ensure we have some advantage before charging in.
Our archers are well trained (bs4), but we don't get too many (10ppm). They know what they're doing though (ASF, extra rank), and can hold in melee against chaff. But we pay far more per arrow than many factions. And none of the TK-style shenanigans that ignore penalties either. Solid on the line with good skill and accuracy, but on their own won't win games.
Our magic is quite potent. Between the Book and BotWD, we can dominate the magic phase. But our magic works best as support, as we have nothing that directly helps magic remove units.

So it seems to come down to setting up the line properly and using support right to tip the scales in our favor. I suppose all armies can say that to some extent, though.

Bharring wrote:
I've only played a few games, and have a small collection, but some things are obvious.

I've been trying MSU infantry (lots of units of 10-20 on foot) is a lot of fun, but not very effective. High Elves need large units to make Core effective. Sword Masters can do work that way (only first rank gets 2 attacks), but anything else gets outclassed or swarmed. A lot of fun when you do manage to substanially multicharge, though. Got 4 units to charge a WoC foot knight bus, and it was glorious. But there are more effective strategies.

MSU is actually one of the best builds for High Elves...

You can get around the Core issue through Reavers & Silverhelms, both of which work well in units of 5 & 6 respectively. Units of 10-12 Archers are still viable, since archery in Fantasy is not about actively killing off units, but rather stripping a few wounds from critical targets such as lone Monsters, enemy chaff/chaff cleaners, and/or knocking a rank bonus point off of an enemy unit.

Swordmasters are better than WL's granted in an MSU list, since damage output is more important than survivability, however, a unit of 10 WL's in a 3x3 formation, (and the last chump hanging out in the backby his little lonesome), is still a sneaky little move that works well. Phoenix Guard are still outright ards and probably the one unit you'd look to make up to 20 strong.

Sisters of Averlorn are huge to an MSU army btw! If you haven't got any yet, get some. Their flaming arrows are perfect for stripping Regen before your Bolters open up.

Even the oft lamented Lion Chariots can find a good home in an MSU list, since combat wise, you're looking primarily to minimise the frontage of all your units so that you hit enemies with 2-3+ hard hitters across a single facing.

Support the army with lores like Shadow, High, Light or Beast magic.

Bharring wrote:
DE are glass cannons who blast people away.
WE are paper skirmishers who never let the opponent choose a good engagement.

HE are elitest linesmen. We win by perfection.
Our line infantry is more skilled than any other (i5 ASF, extra rank), but no stronger/tougher. Well provisioned too. But we pay for all that. Equal points of State Troops and Eldar Spearmen meet face to face, and the Spearmen aren't going to clean their clocks. So we need to ensure we have some advantage before charging in.
Our archers are well trained (bs4), but we don't get too many (10ppm). They know what they're doing though (ASF, extra rank), and can hold in melee against chaff. But we pay far more per arrow than many factions. And none of the TK-style shenanigans that ignore penalties either. Solid on the line with good skill and accuracy, but on their own won't win games.
Our magic is quite potent. Between the Book and BotWD, we can dominate the magic phase. But our magic works best as support, as we have nothing that directly helps magic remove units.

So it seems to come down to setting up the line properly and using support right to tip the scales in our favor. I suppose all armies can say that to some extent, though.

Actually, High Elves are the resilient elves. Only High Elves can put down an army of 2+ saves, while the ability to grow ward saves where needed is stellar. I've faced HE's numerous times who've overall had superior ward saves than my poor Daemons!

If you hate seeing expensive, elite models die, then only HE's can build the 'unmovable white line,' for example;
- Alarielle
- BSB w/Banner of Averlorn
- Lv2 w/Ring of Fury
- Lv2 w/Scroll
- 20-24 WL's w/'I-win' Banner
- 20-24 PG w/Razor Banner
- 4 Bolters
- Frost-turkey

Add Archers/Silverhelms/Reavers to taste, maybe a Great Eagle or two depending on pts for added chaff drops...

That front line of the Lions + PG + Frostie don't go anywhere. Between easy bubble castings of Light magic to boost WS/I10, Pha's to make you less likely to get hit and a token High Magic spell to boost existing Wards, there's very little that can conceivably crack that line.

No other Elf army can get anywhere close to that level of resilience!

Experiment 626 wrote:

No other Elf army can get anywhere close to that level of resilience!

I agree with everything you wrote except this : Host of the Eternity King takes this theme and kicks it up a notch.

Alarielle with unit of choice (say, sword masters, or White Lions)
Cauldron of Blood with Death Hag with Witch Elves and a level 2 high mage.
Brolocks
Sisters of the Thorn (for more beast and life buffs, woot!)
PG
Phoenix, Bolt throwers, season to taste.

Everything except the bolt throwers above has at least, at least, a 5 ++ ward, most of it has a 4 up, and every thing that has a 5 up has the ability for that 5 up to become a 4 up or even 3 up. YUCK! It also has the possibility of having between lots of extra toughness between flesh to stone / throne'd flesh to stone, and the toughness boosting beast spells.

And you're rocking a list that has two vectors of life magic, beast magic, and high magic. And it hits like a ton of bricks in melee too due the magic and effects its rockin'. And it has ward saves comin' out its ass, and even if you plough through the extra toughness and ward saves, it has two vectors of Regrowth, and if you're feeling cheeky and lucky, Storm of Renewal. If you really want to lose friends, you can drop the brolocks for an additional unit of Sisters, though the death and dark magic of Brolocks are probably worth having in their own right.


You can make a HotEK list that is rock hard and hits like a dump truck if you get even a modicum of luck in the magic phase.


EDIT 1: fixed borked quote.
EDIT 2: whoops, not everything has a ward, no ward on bolt throwers. durrr!

If he's starting out, are cheesy lists all that relevant?

High Elves are the only survivable Elves. That said, if I'm not min/maxxing (and I'd rather not), my survivability is about that of Empire, which is to say about baseline. Great for Elves, but nothing compared to WoC or Lizardmen. Which is how it should be.

No comments on my cavalry heavy list? :(

Guess I'll make my own thread again...

 RaptorBeast wrote:
All I really need is to know what units are good and what I should buy then I'll be set.

Ummmm no. That's the 40k talking. Don't worry we'll beat that out of you.

First off fantasy doesn't really have a "Net list" culture like 40k.

Fantasy is much more about positioning. Between unit facing determining what you can see, needing to move in block formation & the lackluster shooting phase meaning you can't project out your force (you have to actually be there). Player skill is a lot more important than list building.

Now I'm not saying list building isn't important. It definitely is. Double phoenix is much better than double Sea Helm. I'm just saying I see a lot of 40k ones, especially the ones who ask "What list should I build" get very frustrated that they get their teeth kicked in & come back with "This list suck" or "Why is army X so bad"

What you should do, is play a smaller game (1200-1500) to learn the rules. Learn what style army you like to play (not the one you THINK you'll like) as you may find that while an all magic army sounds cool, it's too random to be fun or consistently playable. Then adjust your list to fill in holes & adapt to your style. Generally in every list you want/need:

A General (highest Ld, generally a combat monster)
A Wizard (Generally want lvl 3 or 4, built for durability)
A BSB (Generally a combat hero built for defense

Then fill out your roster with things like:
A Bunker(To hide your wizard in, Phoenix guard do this well)
An Anvil (Big and or Durable unit to hold up your opponent, White lions can do wonders since they're stubborn)
A Hammer (Silver helms / Dragon princes)
Chaff (Cheap fast units to redirect your opponents charges, think reavers)
Shooting (to soften your opponents big blocks or pick off their chaff)


Pretty much everything in the HE book is "good" but unlike 40k fantasy has very few units that can be run independent of each other and without support will break to anything. Your biggest nastiest hardest unit can die to something as low as skeleton warriors. Such as in my last game:

My opponent had a block of 10 Dragon Princes. Those are the HE elite cavalry. They had a magic banner & a magic weapon & were worth about 390 points. I wiped them out with a 130 point unit of cheap gakky skeleton warriors, unbuffed by any magic. He took some bait I left which pulled him out of formation, my skeletons charged him in the side. Now instead of 20 attacks, he gets 4. Before any blows are struck I'm winning combat by 5 (flank charge + 3 ranks) He has to do 5 wounds on 4 attacks just to NOT LOSE. He did 2. I got lucky & did one. He now had a flee check on a 5 because a nearby vampire was reducing his Ld. He fled & I got lucky & caught him. His 390 point combat cavalry block lost to a unit worth 1/3 their point cost because he took the bait on killing a 50 point unit of zombie dogs.

Just wanted to show you an example f what is "good" isn't always what is "right" because in fantasy, unlike 40k, the WHAT matters a lot less than the HOW.

Bharring wrote:
If he's starting out, are cheesy lists all that relevant?

High Elves are the only survivable Elves. That said, if I'm not min/maxxing (and I'd rather not), my survivability is about that of Empire, which is to say about baseline. Great for Elves, but nothing compared to WoC or Lizardmen. Which is how it should be.

The guy clearly has a handle on gaming in general from his post - he said "tell me what's good and i'll take it from there. I was just tacking onto what another poster said with some counter point that you can, indeed, make a tough as nails elf list if you want.

Easy with the "cheesy" comments ; because someone doesn't play the game the way you want them to doesn't mean they play it wrong or worth monikers of derision. Because by proxy i could say "If he's just starting out, is the inability to see or high-horsed refusal to play great combinations all that relevant?", but see, that would be inflammatory. It would also assume that the way that you play the game is somehow wrong compared to how i play i, when it's a game, and as long as we're both enjoying it, who cares ?

He can make up his own mind how he wants to play.



-- Haight

Yeah, the term cheesy was improper. 'Significantly min/maxxed' would have been both more accurate and less inflammatory. I should be more careful.

I'm not sure how "competative" his meta is. And projected my own preference into that void.

OP, you'll probably want min core, and probably mostly of the same unit. Probably a lvl4 mage, and then focus on your favorite Special(s). To start anyways.

Of the 'best' infantry specials:
Sword masters strike hard and fast. Killiest of the infantry, but not very survivable (despite heavy armor + parry ranged). Glass hammer.
Phoenix Guard hit harder than Core infantry, but their strength comes from their survivability. A 4+ ward effectively halves their losses, among other things.
Lions of Chrace hit harder than PG, and survive better than Swordmasters

Shaso_Keo wrote:
No comments on my cavalry heavy list? :(

Guess I'll make my own thread again...

HE Cav lists are one of the best builds out there. 10 DP's w/ banner of the broken dragon in there, prince, BSB, and archmage and you're good to go. Take some silver helms in core to support them and a phoenix and that's a solid core to any army.

 Warptide wrote:

Shaso_Keo wrote:
No comments on my cavalry heavy list? :(

Guess I'll make my own thread again...

HE Cav lists are one of the best builds out there. 10 DP's w/ banner of the broken dragon in there, prince, BSB, and archmage and you're good to go. Take some silver helms in core to support them and a phoenix and that's a solid core to any army.

Actually the all-cav build works better with Silverhelms as the main unit, since you don't end up sacrificing any attacks from the riders...
A big unit or 10-12 + the obligatory mounted Prince/BSB/Lv4, and then fill out with Reavers + Eagles for chaffing, 5-6 strong DP's for flank hitting, perhaps a chariot or two (those flying Bolter boats do well enough in this kind of list), and Frostchickens.

 Warptide wrote:
The High Elves book is great because there aren't a lot of bad choices, to be honest. I would stay away from the T4 chariots, but other than that, you really can do whatever you want with the army. Some popular builds you see are...

1. Gunline: lots of archers, sisters, bolt throwers, defensive units
2. Cav bus: huge bus of silver helms with lots of characters in it. Auxiliary units support the cav bus.
3. Monster mash: lords on dragons or phoenixes, phoenixes in rare.

The most common list you'll see is a fairly balanced approach: a unit of cav in core or special, a block of special infantry, a few archer units, some bolt throwers, maybe a phoenix or some eagles. Archmage is a popular lord choice, but the loremaster and prince are also very good.

If you are looking for an in-depth look at every unit, I would check out this 8th ed HE handbook on Ultuan.net:

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=48198

1d4chan also has a good page on the current book:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/High_Elves

Hey, I'm struggling to pick which fantasy army/ies I'd like to play, that first link was excellent and I know there's one in the same format on the Empire forum, are they the only ones in that format or are there others does anyone know?

Edit: I've found quite a few more now sorry. I was looking in the wrong place on most of the forums.