Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've started adding a lot of bikes to my DA list (Ravenwing is so much fun), and we came across an issue we had never run into before. A bike has the option to jink when someone fires at it, as long as they announce before any rolls are made, yes? Does this mean they have the option to jink ANY TIME someone fires at them, as long as they announce they're jinking? The real question then, can a bike jink when receiving overwatch fire?

In terms of rules, we didn't find anything specifically saying they can't do it. In terms of making sense, we agreed that yes, a biker could do some bobs and weaves as he charges someone. The main person that opposed it agreed with us on everything, but pointed out that there would be no downside to it (why not jink on every charge then?). Unlike when taking a jink normally, where you'll snap fire, jinking during a charge (if allowed) has no negative effects on the biker (we might make a house rule of losing hammer of wrath if you jink if no official decision is clear).

I'm not seeing anything that disallows it, myself. Seems kinda beardy but it is what it is.

Yeah it's definitely legal. I really like your idea for the house rule though. Taking away hammer of wrath is a good trade off for a 4+ jink. I might offer that suggestion to my warhammer circle and see what they think.

"beardy".... lol. HJ makes me laugh!

Seems legit to me. Hadn't really thought about it since my Reavers have never had to charge into Overwatch before. I think I'd be rather put out if my opponent tried to suggest that they didn't get the Jink. (After all, my wyches don't get their Dodge against Overwatch.)

I personally think the BRB is terribly written and not supported as much as it sorely needs to be with FAQs and Errata.

With things as they are and trying to make heads or tails of the rules, I would say RAW does not support Jink during Overwatch. Jink USR says you declare Jink when your unit "is selected* as a target for a shooting attack." The Shooting Sequence indicates Step 2 is when a unit is "selected" as the target. When being Charged, you don't choose a target. The section on "Resolve Overwatch" provides no step for "selecting" a target. You only choose to fire or not to fire Overwatch.

* "selected" is the key word because in the Shooting Phase you have multiple targets from which you "select" one.

 Farseer Pef wrote:
I personally think the BRB is terribly written and not supported as much as it sorely needs to be with FAQs and Errata.

With things as they are and trying to make heads or tails of the rules, I would say RAW does not support Jink during Overwatch. Jink USR says you declare Jink when your unit "is selected* as a target for a shooting attack." The Shooting Sequence indicates Step 2 is when a unit is "selected" as the target. When being Charged, you don't choose a target. The section on "Resolve Overwatch" provides no step for "selecting" a target. You only choose to fire or not to fire Overwatch.

* "selected" is the key word because in the Shooting Phase you have multiple targets from which you "select" one.

I would counter that with this, if the opponent has only one unit on the table, can you shoot at it?

By your argument, no one could ever be tabled. Just because there is a single option does not preclude a choice, after all, you can always choose not to shoot.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I've started adding a lot of bikes to my DA list (Ravenwing is so much fun), and we came across an issue we had never run into before. A bike has the option to jink when someone fires at it, as long as they announce before any rolls are made, yes? Does this mean they have the option to jink ANY TIME someone fires at them, as long as they announce they're jinking? The real question then, can a bike jink when receiving overwatch fire?

In terms of rules, we didn't find anything specifically saying they can't do it. In terms of making sense, we agreed that yes, a biker could do some bobs and weaves as he charges someone. The main person that opposed it agreed with us on everything, but pointed out that there would be no downside to it (why not jink on every charge then?). Unlike when taking a jink normally, where you'll snap fire, jinking during a charge (if allowed) has no negative effects on the biker (we might make a house rule of losing hammer of wrath if you jink if no official decision is clear).

The thought had never even crossed my mind Bikes just became a little more tempting to use.

 Nilok wrote:

I would counter that with this, if the opponent has only one unit on the table, can you shoot at it?

Yes, you can shoot at the last enemy unit on the table. Don't treat the words:

"selected" is the key word because in the Shooting Phase you have multiple targets from which you "select" one.

as RAW from the book. That is a lazy and fallacious argument. Even if there is only one target left on the board, the Shooting sequence still provides the step of "selecting" a target.

The Shooting Sequence in the Shooting Phase has a step by which a target is selected.
Overwatch has no such step.
Jink is declared when a target is selected.
Thus, Jink can't be declared against Overwatch.

That is the argument I make.

 Farseer Pef wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

I would counter that with this, if the opponent has only one unit on the table, can you shoot at it?

Yes, you can shoot at the last enemy unit on the table. Don't treat the words:

"selected" is the key word because in the Shooting Phase you have multiple targets from which you "select" one.

as RAW from the book. That is a lazy and fallacious argument. Even if there is only one target left on the board, the Shooting sequence still provides the step of "selecting" a target.

The Shooting Sequence in the Shooting Phase has a step by which a target is selected.
Overwatch has no such step.
Jink is declared when a target is selected.
Thus, Jink can't be declared against Overwatch.

That is the argument I make.

I'm not sure where you are getting the restriction that you can't select targets in Overwatch since Overwatch says:

Overwatch wrote:
An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves, and so on. ...

I underlined the part that shows it uses all of the rules except Morale checks and Pinning tests. Can you provide what rule restricts choosing a target?

Also, you can choose not to overwatch if you think you'll be charged by more than one unit if you would rather try to overwatch another charging unit, so overwatch shooting does include a selection process. It's just that most of the time the choice is to fire or not to fire.

Nilok wrote:
I'm not sure where you are getting the restriction that you can't select targets in Overwatch since Overwatch says:
...
Can you provide what rule restricts choosing a target?

pocketcanoe wrote:It's just that most of the time the choice is to fire or not to fire.

You don't get to select a target for Overwatch. The target is pre-determined. As Pocketcanoe deftly puts it, you choose to fire or not fire.
Otherwise, when your guardsmen charge my line, I will Overwatch that tank over there. Can't do that? I thought I could select my target?
See the missing step there?

 Farseer Pef wrote:

Nilok wrote:
I'm not sure where you are getting the restriction that you can't select targets in Overwatch since Overwatch says:
...
Can you provide what rule restricts choosing a target?

pocketcanoe wrote:It's just that most of the time the choice is to fire or not to fire.

You don't get to select a target for Overwatch. The target is pre-determined. As Pocketcanoe deftly puts it, you choose to fire or not fire.
Otherwise, when your guardsmen charge my line, I will Overwatch that tank over there. Can't do that? I thought I could select my target?
See the missing step there?

The lack of choice doesn't remove the targeting mechanic from the shooting process

RULEBOOK under resolve Overwatch:

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack [...] and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on."

so yeah, feel free to jink away.

But when you jink you have to fire snap shots, so if you were to jink, i'm assuming you would have to fire snap shots in combat. Is the 4+ cover save worth hitting on 6s?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
" If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"
so if your locked in combat, thats 2 rounds of needing 6s to hit

 T3RM1NAL_LANC3 wrote:
But when you jink you have to fire snap shots, so if you were to jink, i'm assuming you would have to fire snap shots in combat. Is the 4+ cover save worth hitting on 6s?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
" If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"
so if your locked in combat, thats 2 rounds of needing 6s to hit

Snap Shots don't apply to close combat.

 T3RM1NAL_LANC3 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
" If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"
so if your locked in combat, thats 2 rounds of needing 6s to hit

like rigeld2 said, snap shots only apply to shooting attacks.

Why does snap shot apply to rolling to hit in CC?

It doesn't. So yeah, jink away.

haha hillarous