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Looking for suggestions/input. Using my sons models this is the list I have used for a couple of games. Other models we own include: weirdboy, killacans, nobs, reg painboy, reg war boss, 5 storm boys, burners, dakkajet, and mek with sag. Thank you

Warboss: Da Lucky Stikk; power klaw; warbike 135
Painboy: grot orderly; warbike 80

20 Boyz: big shoota; rokkit launcha; Boss Nob (big choppa) 145
20 Boyz: shootas; 2× big shoota; Boss Nob (big choppa) 165

5 Tankbustas: 2× bomb squig 75
• Trukk: rokkit launcha; reinforced ram 35
4 Meganobz 160
• Battlewagon: deff rolla 120
5 Nobz: big choppa; power klaw; warbikes 255

1 Deffkopta: twin-linked rokkit launcha 30
1 Deffkopta: twin-linked rokkit launcha 30
1 Deffkopta: twin-linked rokkit launcha 30

13 Lootas: Mek 182
3 Mek Gunz: 3× lobba; ammo runt; + 6× Gretchin 57

1,499 points

Overall I think the list is pretty good and it's very similar to the kind of lists I run.

Some minor changes. I would make the two 20-large squads of boyz identical and make sure to add in a Boss Pole to the nobs.

You probably dont need the Mek in with the Lootas.

And that's probably all I would change I think this list can do well. the deffkoptas may be a hit or miss, im assuming they are there to jet around, jink and contest objectives?

Thank you for the feedback, and yes I use the deffkopta as you mentioned and they seem very hit or miss, lol. I haven't had much luck with the tank busters due to the truck being blown on turn 1 so was thinking to put them in a BW. I could squeeze pts by turning my biker nobs to normal biker boys.

If it were me, I'd just take normal biker boyz. If you do the math, you can get 12 normal Warbikers for the same price, still get a power klaw, and get waaaaaay more shots. You'd have to lose a Deffkopter though to put them in Fast Attack though is the only trade off...but the trade is well worth it.

You can either take 12 Warbikers, or you can take less to free up some points but still have a decently durable biker squad due to the Painboy. I feel Nob Bikers are just a smidge too expensive, and now you can pack more regular bikers which means far mor shooting (Which is what Bikes should be doing anyway, or vehicle slicing with the Klaws, really only getting into cc with very weak squads...orks are bullies after all).

Otherwise, looks good. Just my .02

 Icculus wrote:
You probably dont need the Mek in with the Lootas.

Its not a bad choice, as the Mek is a character it means the unit won't run automatically on a "Breaking Heads" result.

And most opponents that have faced Lootas normalky want to shoot at them...

 grendel083 wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
You probably dont need the Mek in with the Lootas.

Its not a bad choice, as the Mek is a character it means the unit won't run automatically on a "Breaking Heads" result. And most opponents that have faced Lootas normalky want to shoot at them...

I have to agree with Grendel on this one. Lootas are awesome and people will generally go after them if they get a chance.

Melevolence is right about the Nob Bikers, they are nice but outclassed by regular bikers. If you don't have the extra bikers though, then I would keep them in, but the lack of an invulnerable save means you have to be really careful where you put them.

Are your 2 squads of 20 boys walking? If they're walking, then IMO they should be 30 boy squads. At 20 then they really beg for a Battlewagon. There's enough fire power out in 7th ed which can remove 20 boys with ease, with or without a Painboy's FnP.

The Meganobz don't really need a Battlewagon, they can do with a Trukk, as either way they'll be one of the first targets. If you give them a Trukk, it means you can give one units of 20 Shoota Boys in a Battlewagon with lots of Rokkits and let them ride around. You'll create an additonal early target. That seems to be the key with your list, make lots of early game targets. Rokkits over Shootas and ditch the Deffrolla on your battlewagon, it's over costed for being usless. The ram is an always these days on Battlewagons.

Otherwise, do yo urealise that your missing BPs on all ur units? They're pretty important these days.

Typically i've found 3 Meganobz to be effective enough at punching holes in things. That would save a fair few points.

the nobs HAVE to take a bosspole. period.

a plain battlewagon isnt very good... take at least one weapon, get rid of the dethrolla and take a ram

nobbikers arent as good as regular warbikers.

get rid of the mek

dont take 6 extra gretchin they actually cost the same as one extra lobba

plus..

if you're getting tankbustaz, always consider using a looted wagon.
it has AV11 (shielding you from small arms fire) and could take up to 3 extra rockits.
also, not beeing fast doesnt matter with tankbustaz, since you dont wanna snapfire em you're constricted to combat speed only, anyway

by the way 20 shootaz are a totally viable choice. they dont get stuck in DT all the time, are easier to maneuver and since u'll get more mobs, your opponent has to split his fire between em.

Since no one else talked about it let me give you some feedback on the other units you mentioned.

Weirdboy: These usually don't pay for themselves in the game. Mine has probably killed himself more times than he has killed someone else. I have considered summoning but this requires an investment in another codec and more models

Killakans: Killakans were good in the previous edition but are a little weaker now. The only time I see these ran anymore is in groups of 6.

Nobs: Nobs are good but MANZ are better. Nobs just get pushed out by better elite choices. For my army I model the nobz that came with the boyz as another boy and use the nobz from the nobz box as the nob in the boyz unit as they look kooler.

Painboy: I don't run painboyz because the math never seems to add up as was pointed out above.

Reg War Boss: Like nobz this poor sap is just pushed out by better units.

Storm Boyz: Keep in mind that once these guys get in they are only boyz. So 5 is just suicide.

Burnaz: Never take them outside of a battle wagon as they will get killed before they do anything. I still like running the burna wagon from time to time. This way you roll up to his space marines, lay the flame template off the front bummer covering 10 of them, then explain to the poor SM player that there are 12 burnas in the battlewagon so 120 auto-hitting. Smile and wave boyz, smile and wave.

Dakkajet: Dakkajets got nerfed so they are not as good as they once where. Instead strap on some bombs and make it a blitza bomber. Like most things redundancy is a good idea.

Mek w/ SAG: Hugely unreliable never take this. Still the most fun in the whole game so always take this. You'll figure it out.

makanit brings up some good points, but..

 Makinit wrote:

Weirdboy: These usually don't pay for themselves in the game. Mine has probably killed himself more times than he has killed someone else. I have considered summoning but this requires an investment in another codec and more models

yeah, but they are immensely fun to play
if you get the beam the unit will almost pay for themselves, but yeah its pretty situational

Painboy: I don't run painboyz because the math never seems to add up as was pointed out above.

painboyz are great in a 30 ork mob or to guard high cost models, like HQ's and MAnz/Nobz/bikers

Storm Boyz: Keep in mind that once these guys get in they are only boyz. So 5 is just suicide.

but keep in mind that they cost only 45 points... pretty good to threaten 5 devastors or stuff like that. every shot that goes in them, doesnt go into your horde

Dakkajet: Dakkajets got nerfed so they are not as good as they once where. Instead strap on some bombs and make it a blitza bomber. Like most things redundancy is a good idea.

i'll agree that the jet was nerfed, but its still a pretty damn good flyer. before it was just way too OP (18 TL s6 shots on a whaagh! )
the thing with the blitza is... well you only have 2 bombs... if you know the opponent has something dangerous you cant normally deal with... then ok, but normally... very situational. a dakkajet on the other hand is always a good choice...

it has enough shots to deal with light infantry,
it has enough oomph to deal with heavy infantry,
it has enough speed and dakka to deal with light to medium vehicles,
and has the ability to deal with other flyers

Made some changes, looking for a fun orky list with minimum models on the board.

Mad Dok Grotsnik 160
Big Mek: shokk attack gun; ammo runt 88

20 Boyz: 2× rokkit launcha; Boss Nob (power klaw; bosspole) 170
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd (squig hound) 40

8 Tankbustas: 3× bomb squig 119
4 Meganobz 160
• Trukk: rokkit launcha; reinforced ram 35

Blitza-bommer 135
6 Warbikerz: Boss Nob (power klaw; bosspole) 148
3 Deffkoptas: 3× twin-linked rokkit launcha 90

12 Lootas 168
Battlewagon: 4× rokkit launcha; reinforced ram 135
Looted Wagon: 2× rokkit launcha; reinforced ram 52

1,500 points

Mad doc goes with the meganobz in the truck. Boys go in the battlewagon. Tankbustas go in the looted wagon. Gretchin stay in the back for obj, along with the big mek sag. Bikes and deffkoptas hunt for easy targets and/or obj. I hate dropping the lobbas but couldn't fit them in. What do you think?

Looks almost like the list I normally run. The only real difference is I don't bring the doc and my warboss is in MA. If you drop the doc you could get the lobbas depending on the situation.

drop the rokkits on the boyz
drop 2 rokkits on the battlewagon

get a bosspole for the manz and a plank for the trukk


if you wanna be on the save side, drop a tankbusta and get the extra armour upgrade for the battlewagon

Update/question on the new Fun list: dropped one deffkopta and changed the boys to shoota boys and added extra armor and plank to the trukk for the meganobz. My question is about the big shoota on the bommer, can it target ground units?

RedNoak wrote:
... plain battlewagon isnt very good... take at least one weapon, get rid of the dethrolla and take a ram
plus..

if you're getting tankbustaz, always consider using a looted wagon. It has AV11 (shielding you from small arms fire) and could take up to 3 extra rockits. Also, not beeing fast doesnt matter with tankbustaz, since you dont wanna snapfire em you're constricted to combat speed only, anyway

I'm not sure if the Looted Wagon comment was also by RedNoak, but I have to disagree:

The Heavy Support section of the Codex for Orks really struggles as you have lots of VERY good units which want spaces. Most of the codex's best units are found in here, which is where the issue comes from. There was an article on Dakkadakka about the top units. I believe it went something like this:
1. Mek Gunz (The lobba being top, then the KMK, then the Traktor)
2. Lootas/Battlewagons

The Looted Wagon was VERY far down that list. Near the bottom. To me, there are only 2 ways of running Tankbusters:
A. 5 to 8 inc a Nob + BP + 3 Squigs all inside a Trukk + Ram + Rokkit.
B. 15 + Mek with Rokkit + Painboy all inside a Battlewagon + Ram + 3 or 4 Rokkits and maybe a Kannon, points permitting.

Option A has the advantage of being cheaper and being easier to run 2. As the Tankbusters have Meltabomns, they do really well at shooting rokkits and squigs followed by charging the vechile. Don't take PKs as it's too expensive for the unit, remember these guys only have a 6+ armor save. If you explode the vechile (which is possible with the PK's AP2) then you'll need to take explosion damage, which you really don't want. The Nob is there to provide protection against bad mob table rolls.

Option B is one I prefer, but from experience isn't as effective as Option A. The idea with this is that you have a lot of other high value threats running around the board which your opponent wants to target first. As Battlewagons hard to pop, you can expect the guys inside to last a bit longer. IF the battlewagon is exploded (rather than just wrecked), then you'll have the Painboy to give the extra FnP 5+ protection for the squad. 16 Rokkits with AP3 are actually really powerful at removing Monsterous creatures and anything running around with 3+ saves.

Keep in mind too that if your warlord is aiming to get the infultrate/outflank warlord trait, then the Tankbusters in option A can use the Trukk to outflank as it's their dedicated transport. Option B can't.

I used to like Looted Wagons, but I would rather take Lootas and Battlewagons before I even go near them. Battlewagons can also take Killakannons if you REALLY want to be killy, but they're not typically worth the point investment BS2 does suck.

When comparing vehicle a AV14 places the BW way above its peers. Add a Ram and a Weapon or 2. Load it with whatever unit you want. Then get to work. Whether you put a Dakka or a Krumpin unit. It does the job of keeping them alive and as long as you keep them in the front arc is Dead Hard.

If you have points for SW in your squads buy Rokkits they are better than Big Shootas. Mathhammer shows them to be more versatile and kill more MEQ.

I run Bikers they are way cheaper and let you run enough that they don't Break if your opponent looks at them dirty. I run 15 + my Warboss. Some say to throw a PB in there, but I can field 4 Bikers for cheaper than him. Which is about what he would save and does a whole lot more damage.

Deffkopters can do work and sow chaos. I would keep them and remember that you can field more than 1 in a unit.

@Sketchyfk

this isnt about the best support choice. its about the means of transportation for the boyz. and by the way, does it really matter if you get a battlewagon or a looted wagon? the support slot is gone either way...

also i wont say that the battlewagon is the best transportation system per se, it always depends on what you are fielding and how many points you wanna invest. take a look at his list, where do you get the points to squeze in a battlewagon that clocks in at a minimum of 120 points?

the looted wagon costs exactly 7 points more than a trukk. for those 7 points you loose the "fast" attribute which doesnt really matter for shooty passengers and you gain AV11. so all those bolters, shootaz etc cant harm you anymore and its more durable against all other weapons and the vehicle cant be autopened. thats a good deal, IF you can afford the support slot.

also the tankbustaz are a priority target as it is. investing even more points can be pretty suicidal. with squigs, a battlewagon, painboy and nobs the unit can get easily to the 300 point mark. tankbustaz want to be sneaky, they have to be since they arent really durable... their best defence is to give the enemy more juicy targets to shoot at.

also i'm a bit reluctant about holding certain units in reserve... keep in mind that its entirely possible that they'll miss the 2nd turn, so they will have their effectivness cut by 30%
especially tankbustaz will not benifit as much from outflanking as other units, since for the most part they will shoot and do damage in the first turn. (cant remember a game where they didnt shot in turn 1)


@Sick Bag

i agree with the deffkoptaz a pretty amazing unit (dont forget to scout em)
as far as the painboss for bikers goes... just consider that if you take an HQ like a warboss with the bikers, the painboss will get his points back at a much higher rate

also hes pretty good as a model himself, poison 4+ and 4 attacks he acts like a buffed nob, so technically you only pay 47 points for the FnP