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I'm having a planned game for this weekend. And we're gona play 1500 pts.
I run footsloggas backed up by big gunz, kommandoes and fast support in face of 'eavy armored trukkboyz and stormboyz. Doing great so far. But i generally play around 1000-1250 points.

I don't have enough assembled infantry models to expand my allready solid numbers of footsloggas. So, i've decided to expand using more HQs (that will be represented by Nobz). I want to run a 2-d CAD with first one being Warboss + Wierdboy (mandatory cause he's so much fun) and the second one will be a detachment of painboyz. Painboss and...Grotsnik? But if i run Grotsnik, he's a swooping 160 pts. Means i could take just a second Painboss, extra big gun and more boyz (will proxy somehow) insted.

Anywayz, what are your thoughts on Grotsnik vs a regular painboy and more stuff. Grotsnik could make the squad fearless and pack an extra PK in there. But is it really worth the 160 pt tag? What are your thoughts on the matter.

Where do you run your weirdboy?

I've ran one twice now, once in a grot blob in a trukk (rollin' around dropping out witchfires for barely anything pts wise. Second time in a blob of 19 boys in a wagon.

Both times (tbh I got unlucky, I got da krunch and didn't manage to hit all game with it... against a static IG gunline....) he has seemed lack luster in those units. In the grots seemed better, as with da boys they wanted to be in combat and once in combat his casting is useless.

(you cant cast out witchfires while in combat can you?)

Grotsnik, hmm fearless woulnd't be anything to scoff at. You'd pay 20 pts for the BBP. But I think what grotsnik brings is that hes more like Painboss+warboss. He's got the perks of the painboss but will also hit pretty hard. Where would you run him? in one of the blobs? would make it pretty nasty once in combat

Worth the cost? not entirely sure, but i reckon you'll have fun with him. I quite enjoy the Ork special characters. They tend to have some added flavour that other dex specials just dont have that much of.

For his price, competitively you're taking him for the Fearless. A green tide likes him because of this, however the Big Bosspole also unlocks fearless. If you're wanting his rampage ability, then putting him with Meganobz works, but typically they can do enough damage without him.

If your running 2 CADs, if the 2nd one is Ghazzy's, I would just take the Big Bosspole instead so that you have at least one unit with fearless. To me, the only other unit who massively benifits from him are regular Nobs, but they're too fragile these days as they are. A painboy on a bike is 75 pts, and much more useful as he can dart between different units to protect whoever you feel are more valuable at the certain stage in the game.

+ Painboys on bikes with a BP can join 5 Deffkoptas for a surprisingly effective wound sink. adding a Warboss + BP + Bike means you have a little Deffstar unit, they can't shoot as many shots as Bikes, and they might not be as good in CC as Nob Bikers, but they have 5 twin linked Rokkits and a PK, scout, aren't affected as badly by terrain, and hit and run.

Remember also, Grotsnik is locked to the unit. If he can't escape, that's not so good.

Solar Shock wrote:
Where do you run your weirdboy?

I've ran one twice now, once in a grot blob in a trukk (rollin' around dropping out witchfires for barely anything pts wise. Second time in a blob of 19 boys in a wagon.

Both times (tbh I got unlucky, I got da krunch and didn't manage to hit all game with it... against a static IG gunline....) he has seemed lack luster in those units. In the grots seemed better, as with da boys they wanted to be in combat and once in combat his casting is useless.

(you cant cast out witchfires while in combat can you?)

As i run a mob of 30 boyz + warboss + painboss almost every game, the wierdboy goes in there. Well, he's not an outstanding character and quite random. But i like the way he actually plays. And he helps out vs psychers. Besides, he gets useful things from time to time. Da Krunch is fun, tellyportin' here and there is an outstanding ability if applied correctly. Warpath is helpful too as often you face stuff that doesn't go down too easilly. And he's got an ability to have a s6-7 ap4 instant death staff. Besides, he's got a nice little s6 ap3 blast every game that's alwayz handy. s7 ap2 flamer sounds scary but it's hard to use and i haven't rolled the beam yet.

This game i'm gona have a squad of 30 choppa boyz and a squad of 20-30 shootaboyz. So, depending on what he rolls and what the opponent brings, he's gona stick to one of those. Or even with truckboyz if he gets flamer.
And yep, you can't shoot out of combat. But you can tellyport out of it! Might be helpful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sketchyfk wrote:
For his price, competitively you're taking him for the Fearless. A green tide likes him because of this, however the Big Bosspole also unlocks fearless. If you're wanting his rampage ability, then putting him with Meganobz works, but typically they can do enough damage without him.

If your running 2 CADs, if the 2nd one is Ghazzy's, I would just take the Big Bosspole instead so that you have at least one unit with fearless. To me, the only other unit who massively benifits from him are regular Nobs, but they're too fragile these days as they are. A painboy on a bike is 75 pts, and much more useful as he can dart between different units to protect whoever you feel are more valuable at the certain stage in the game.

+ Painboys on bikes with a BP can join 5 Deffkoptas for a surprisingly effective wound sink. adding a Warboss + BP + Bike means you have a little Deffstar unit, they can't shoot as many shots as Bikes, and they might not be as good in CC as Nob Bikers, but they have 5 twin linked Rokkits and a PK, scout, aren't affected as badly by terrain, and hit and run.

Remember also, Grotsnik is locked to the unit. If he can't escape, that's not so good.

Sadly, neither painboyz or wierdboyz can take gifts or gubbinz.
I don't own any deffkoptas or bikers and don't want to make biker characters in a footslogging-themed army.

Painboys can take Orky Know-Wats, that's how they get the bike and Bosspole. No Gifts though.

Excellent advice here. My personal Favorite is to take Grotsnik with 3-6 Killsaw MegaNobz. They will destroy anything. It's a lot of fun. Probably not the most competitive but oh so much Orky goodness. Just pick your targets carefully.

I'd put him in ard boyz mob , makes pretty durable mele unit , that wount run away I guess

in an 'ard boys mob, he makes the whole unit fearless, adds another powerklaw into the mix, and most importantly, people will forget rampage. if they knock you down to a handful of boys, he might charge in a unit to try and finish you off - and then you'll be outnumbered. and lets face it, if orks aren't outnumbered then they don't really need extra attacks do they! they generally overload the enemy anyway.

I have put grotsnik in a unit of meganobs with a megaboss with the lukky stikk and thrown them across the board in a killkrusha with a KFF mek tacked on for good measure. it did the biznis.

Well....I just wanna own his model...or potentially have him just for the Waaagh Council...

I'm just annoyed with him because though he did get inherently better when he lost the requirement to beeline for the closest enemy, he still is way too expensive. Especially with Painboys doing his job for far less points.

While he does pack an extra PK, and an improved statline and grants fearless, I'm not sure I'd pay 160 points for him. He can be useful to big boy blobs, or to the green tide to grant fearless and FNP while allowing your boss to take a different relic if he'd prefer...but still...160 pts. And his rampage will almost NEVER get used. It's a points tax for the most situational ability for a hoard army...

 some bloke wrote:
in an 'ard boys mob, he makes the whole unit fearless, adds another powerklaw into the mix, and most importantly, people will forget rampage. if they knock you down to a handful of boys, he might charge in a unit to try and finish you off - and then you'll be outnumbered. and lets face it, if orks aren't outnumbered then they don't really need extra attacks do they! they generally overload the enemy anyway.

HMMMM...you know, i got a unit of 'ard boyz in a truck. Now it's interesting if he'd be better off with just 30 shootaboyz or in a truck with 'ard boyz and mek. If i put him in a truckboy unit, the shootas could split up for 2 smaller squads. But i'm very short on points, so, it'd be just a unit of 20 and a unit of 10 which wouldn't be so effective.

Sketchyfk wrote:
For his price, competitively you're taking him for the Fearless. A green tide likes him because of this, however the Big Bosspole also unlocks fearless. If you're wanting his rampage ability, then putting him with Meganobz works, but typically they can do enough damage without him.

If your running 2 CADs, if the 2nd one is Ghazzy's, I would just take the Big Bosspole instead so that you have at least one unit with fearless. To me, the only other unit who massively benifits from him are regular Nobs, but they're too fragile these days as they are. A painboy on a bike is 75 pts, and much more useful as he can dart between different units to protect whoever you feel are more valuable at the certain stage in the game.

+ Painboys on bikes with a BP can join 5 Deffkoptas for a surprisingly effective wound sink. adding a Warboss + BP + Bike means you have a little Deffstar unit, they can't shoot as many shots as Bikes, and they might not be as good in CC as Nob Bikers, but they have 5 twin linked Rokkits and a PK, scout, aren't affected as badly by terrain, and hit and run.

Remember also, Grotsnik is locked to the unit. If he can't escape, that's not so good.

With hit and run you take the initiative test on the highest in the unit (warboss at I4). With this you could get into melee with something you can't kill in your assault phase to avoid getting shot at. If they then survive their assault phase you get a 2/3 chance to move 3d6" even before your movement phase and shoot something before charging back in to something on your assault phase.

There are some catches if you want to hop around the table with this. You have to declare a direction and then move exactly the distance the dice tell you (but you can move through the unit you where engaged with). The enemy gets their 6" consolidation. This trick only works if you have enough targets in charge range that aren't vehicles and won't chop you better than they can shoot you. If they can chop real good then you would probably try to hit and run at the end of your assault but only if that won't just give them a chance to shoot and chop you in their turn. And don't forget it has to be something you want your squad to shoot at too because you have to charge them and you don't want to waste a round of shooting.

This seems like a fairly solid way to slingshot a warboss powerclaw and maybe a buzzsaw into the enemy's backfield. Having a painboy or warlord in a suicide unit though is costly. The warboss and painboy can join other units and the deffkoptas could do their own thing if you don't need powerclaws back there.

Melevolence wrote:
Well....I just wanna own his model...or potentially have him just for the Waaagh Council...

I'm just annoyed with him because though he did get inherently better when he lost the requirement to beeline for the closest enemy, he still is way too expensive. Especially with Painboys doing his job for far less points.

While he does pack an extra PK, and an improved statline and grants fearless, I'm not sure I'd pay 160 points for him. He can be useful to big boy blobs, or to the green tide to grant fearless and FNP while allowing your boss to take a different relic if he'd prefer...but still...160 pts. And his rampage will almost NEVER get used. It's a points tax for the most situational ability for a hoard army...

Grotsnik isn't really expensive though. When you take into consideration the that he's only one HQ slot, he's down-right cheap.

For 125 points, you get a naked warboss and a naked painboy. For 150 points, you get a warboss with only a klaw and a naked painboy. Basically, Grotsnick is a properly costed warboss with 'eavy armor, klaw, and BP + a painboy. The kicker? You get him in one HQ slot, you get him with fearless, and you get him with rampage. This isn't without a trade off - he also has one less attack, and his str and toughness are both 1 point lower.

On an individual model basis, Grotsnik -is- quite expensive, but when you crunch down and look at what he compares to... he's a solid choice. Not stupid broken, but quite strong. Admittedly, his main strength is in lists which are cramped for HQ choices. If you were to drop your weirdboy, forget about the CAD stuff and slot him in? He'd do work for that single slot, but he becomes less valuable as you have more and more slots made available for you.

I've run him today.

Grotsnik ran with 30 shootaboyz and a wierdboy. They were on the flank opposing 2 rhinos with tacticals and a formation of Bjorn + 2 ven dreads. Hard to tell if he was worth it or no, in all fairnes. The problem is that they didn't actually participate in a fight too much. The re were far too many flamers and heavy flamers for me to advance aggressively, so they just lured dreads towards KMK and took their time running around taking shots and scoring points. So, in this case he was just like a regular painboss. Yep, eventually they got charged by a dread and this extra PK was nice. Fearless is fine too, i guess. The danger of an extra pk forced the opponent to waste a turn to get better position with his dread.

Anywayz, he showd himself as somewhat fine. I feel that i'd probably have more mileage from this extra 110 pts spent elsewhere but at the same time, he wasn't a waste. So, not bad overall. Who knows when you'd need this fearless and extra PK. And even rampage. It's not rare when you're almost eliminated in mellee but still have a turn of pk striking before going down.

Another option i'm thinking of is within Greentide. Boss with BBP is nice and cheap but he's pretty vulnerable to s10 barrage (Manticores, Chapter Masters, etc) and ID weapons - and he has to accept challenges if he's in range. An accident Dreadknight, some psycher or a character IK and you're in danger. So, i was thinking about Da Suppa Cybork. As you loose fearles now, the only way to get it is either via a BBP on another character - but than you're very tight on points to get another CAD for DLS which is amazing for the greentide or you spend this extra 110 pts on Grotsnik. He's also way more durable than a regular painboss which is a huge plus on it's own as t4 2 wounds can be easilly sniped out by literally any more or less serious barrage while t5 and 3 wounds are more resilient.

Basically, you'd pay 110 (Grotsnik over Painboss) + 30 (Da Supa Cybork over BBP) = 140 pts for Better protection vs barrage and odd challenges.

 koooaei wrote:
So, i was thinking about Da Suppa Cybork. As you loose fearles now, the only way to get it is either via a BBP on another character

Well, I thought that Ghazkhull's Supplement allows to take multiple relics on a single character. So why not to take both BBP & Supa-Kibork?

Wow, nice catch!