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Seems like there is very little talk of daemons these days. Here's a few questions to hopefully get some conversation going:

1. Are they still competitive or just fallen off hard?

2. What still works in your typical 1850 tournament?

3. We had FMC spam, dog spam, screamerstar, summoning all the thingz...are any of these lists still valid? Or does a hybrid list work better?

4.What type of Daemon list puts down the big dogs best like falcon spam eldar , adamantine lance, or cron air?

It seems you need some form of summoning to be competitive with daemons nowadays. The days of using psychic powers just for buffs are gone. Against Knights daemons cannot really fight them head on, just rely on overwhelming their objectives with summoned troops.

It really depends on the rules pack as sometimes you see limits to psychic dice and this really hurts daemons because as noted by the previous poster the power is mostly leaning on summoning these days.

FMC lists can still function and do ok and are still played in a competitive meta.
Trouble is its impossible to have durability through psychic powers and to put out a decent amount of summoned units at the same time.

My recent lists have been focused around Screamerstar and Fatey but now acting as a summoning star whilst putting durable threats forward along with the summoned units to create threat overload.
I've also been leaning on Apoc allied Nids for Anti air and additional threats.

The Shrouded cluster doesn't work that great in my experience because there is too much ignoring cover around.
I wouldn't mind hearing back from some folks that have been consistently running FMC builds to understand exactly what they look like and how they function along with the issues experienced with these builds in the current meta.

Still very competitive, I would say 3rd or 4th most competitive at the moment, behind Eldar, SM and possibly necrons.

Summoning, is key to many, but not all lists.

lists are often based around Fateweaver and/or Be'lakor. Screamer blobs with heralds are still potent. Dog spam and grinders still works too.

FMC has changed to nurgle most of the time, and is more about summoning than before.

Edit: However, Imperial Knights do give them a lot of trouble.

Me and my buddy won a doubles tournament this past weekend. At 2000 and we pretty much dominated each game. Apart from that my most common lists always have fateweaver and be'lakor, then I either use heralds or two Tzeentch princes. And I spam seekers dogs and screamers. 20 of each and 6-9 screamers. So with either herald support or FMC spam I almost dominate every game in our comp meta. Daemons are very comp and strong. Nothing changed. We only have to do it the other way.

Yes!!! Very competitive! I have won 4 strait monthly tournies in 7th with them and have become the army to beat!

We play BAO rules, I have beaten everything from 5 Knights, serpent spam, and drop pods. List has the tools and is very adaptable.

few General things. Most games I summon around 1-2 things. Mostly a few squads of daemonettes to go hide on objectives. I use my warp charges on psychic offenseostly. Most games each daemon gets psykic shriek! Easily best power in game and fate reroll one one dice can nuke full squads! I do like belakor but sometimes telepathy isn't the right choice and I needs Something else instead.

Heralds of Chaos
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Disc of Tzeentch 120
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Exalted Reward; Disc of Tzeentch 125
Kairos Fateweaver 300
Daemon Prince: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Daemon of Slaanesh; Greater Reward; daemonic flight; Warp-forged Armour 310

11 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch 99
3 Nurgling Swarms 45
3 Nurgling Swarms 45

7 Screamers of Tzeentch 175

Lord of Fate Daemon Prince: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Lesser Reward; daemonic flight; Warp-forged Armour 315
Lord of Fate Daemon Prince: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Lesser Reward; daemonic flight; Warp-forged Armour 315

1,849 points

Slaanesh prince gets psyker shriek, then goes for iron arm if I really need high str shots. Both tzeetnch princes gets staff of change, psyker shriek, and the other powers change with the game. Key to daemons unlearning which psyker power hurt which armies... And summoning rarely is the answer!

Screamer star literally is there for serpent spam... They can't touch it! Just psyker shriek the Knights daed and run through em.
Key powers,
Psyker shriek: best power in game! If you roll a 1-5-6 use fateweaver to reroll 1 for heavy damage!
Shrouding!!!! If your opponent doesn't ignore cover this allows the entire army to jink for 2+ cover!!!
Bolt of change!!! No jink saves vs it, can use reroll to get mass damage!
Flickering fire, so useful!!! Glance out back armor, kill flyers!! Never forget about it!


Trap powers!
Invisibility! Not good! Even before we switched to bs1-ws1 it's just a bad power for this army! Your trying to keep everything alive, not just one unit.. It's too many warp charges for that, shrouding is 10 times better!
Summoning, incursion ect: don't over summon, if your hurting a smart player will just ignore the new stuff and kill the scary stuff. Situational but most often damage powers are so much more important!

Knights are the main problem because other then Be'lakor daemons don't have any good way of dealing with them.

Screamers, be'lakor and Tzeentch DP with staff for str 8. These are the main countermeasure for killing knights. Still I have found out that a pure knight detachment is not that good. They are scoring ok but they can't harm most of our units due to inv save and buffs. They lack ignore cover, and they get easily overwhelmed by our army counter measures. As for one as an ally is not enough to deal dmg by himself.
As for serpent spam I have found out that seekers/hounds/screamer spam can kill them super fast in assault. All you need to do is carefully plan how to deploy and what to do wih reserves depending on who plays first. Most times you can turn two assault and wreck at least 3 of them. I usually grim one unit/ invis another and use positioning and shrouding to buff almost he whole army. Even if they focus on one target, let's say one DP then he rest will cause havoc. And WK's are breakfast for seekers and Be'lakor.

I'm having a good time with Daemons still. The biggest change with 7th was psychic reliability, but other changes have made for interesting tactics. I generally find myself going light on summoning, due to the massive number of dice involved and use this situationally. The psychic phase is more of a resource/gambling mechanic now. The flight mode switch nerf was offset mostly by the Jink buff to FMCs. The only real gripe I have with the codex is that 7th negated the psychic buff Daemons of Tzeentch received with no FAQ.

Yes I agree with you.. LD bonus for DoT is a waste without a FAQ... But still playing many comp games in 7th I ve found that daemons have a lot of potential. The randomness of the codex is still a problem but it's controllable. Overall in my opinion it's one of the most versatile and fun armies to play plus they have great painting potential. You never get bored with painting them.

 avedominusnox wrote:
Yes I agree with you.. LD bonus for DoT is a waste without a FAQ... But still playing many comp games in 7th I ve found that daemons have a lot of potential. The randomness of the codex is still a problem but it's controllable. Overall in my opinion it's one of the most versatile and fun armies to play plus they have great painting potential. You never get bored with painting them.

The DoT nerf is a minor gripe. I'm still overall happy with the codex. I've been happy playing a blitzy assault list with some psychic buffing support. I could totally flip to a FMC style list or a psychic heavy summoning list without too much difficulty, model wise. The rewards randomness really is inconsequential. I find myself fishing for rewards and coming into games expecting to take 0s. If I get something that appears situationally superior then I keep it. Although random, I've gotten some key invuln reroll and Armorbane/Fleshbane rewards before.

One thing i really enjoy about my army is the lack of armor saves. Daemons rely on their invulns and covers for defense. Only a handful of units have actual armor (Daemon Prince upgrade, Brass Collars, etc.) which really throws off some lists. Points buying AP3/4 are ill spent against daemons. AP1/2 has limited use against chariots and soul grinders, or insta-gibbing multi-wound models. It really throws some players off. Complementing these saves with psykers, rewards and artefacts is what makes them durable. Also, haha grav guns.

Also, complete agreement on painting them. Part of the reason I started playing Daemons was because I enjoy painting organic stuff more than power armor.

Yes, of course.
Be'lakor or Fateweaver (or both!) are mandatory in any list.
-w/Be'lakor, use shrouding on himself (for Jink) and invisibility on your Deathstar (screamerstar, Doggy-Star, etc.)
-w/Fateweaver, use the Grimoire on him so he has a 2+ invuln save
--Also he can vector strike to really hurt flyers (because logic doesn't exist)
Nurgle Daemon Princes w/flying are great CC monsters, being able to Jink for a 2+ cover save, roll iron arm and plague powers (which are amazingly good), and Balesword for ID
CSM allies can be very strong
Soul Grinders are bombs
-Slannesh if you want a giant stabby engine
-Nurgle if you want an equivalent tank to blow up
Khorne Dogs swarm everything
Screamers need invisibility or Grimore+cursed earth or else they get blown up instantly
3 units of 11 pink horrors provide enough summoning support for a good army
GUO is a bomb, albeit slow to get to combat
Herald of Tzeentch is a great unit, but dies easily
Blue Scribes are underrated, if you have ~81 points left, these guys can fill it in. Roll Daemonology with them each turn, and if you're lucky you'll get Incursion or Posession
Nurglings are good if you don't want to spend much on troops
That about covers it.

 avedominusnox wrote:
Yes I agree with you.. LD bonus for DoT is a waste without a FAQ...

It's not a total waste, it's still useful when fighting Tyranids and getting hit with Perils.

For those who summon what are the preferred units to summon in?

 D6Damager wrote:
For those who summon what are the preferred units to summon in?

For the primaris:
Daemonettes for objective scoring (7+" run with fleet ensures they can deep strike onto an objective and then run back onto it after scattering.
Flesh hounds if you don't need to score an objective and just want something tough and MSU and tactical that can soak overwatch / kill combat squads etc next turn
Pink horrors if you are down to your last psyker and are close to being tabled (they can summon more horrors and maybe prevent you being tabled)

For incursion you probably want drones if the enemy is close to the drop point otherwise whatever (they are much of a muchness)

For possession you want LoC if it is early in the game and you need more support/AA. If it is late in the game you want a keeper of secrets. If you are getting tabled you might go for a GUO deep striking into a ruin but depends on VP etc.

wtnind wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:
For those who summon what are the preferred units to summon in?

For possession you want LoC if it is early in the game and you need more support/AA. If it is late in the game you want a keeper of secrets. If you are getting tabled you might go for a GUO deep striking into a ruin but depends on VP etc.

Agree except with keeper of secrets. If you need a CC FMC then summoning a bloodthirster is better.

 The Internet is for Khorn wrote:

wtnind wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:
For those who summon what are the preferred units to summon in?

For possession you want LoC if it is early in the game and you need more support/AA. If it is late in the game you want a keeper of secrets. If you are getting tabled you might go for a GUO deep striking into a ruin but depends on VP etc.

Agree except with keeper of secrets. If you need a CC FMC then summoning a bloodthirster is better.

Bloodthirsters are awful to summon. They are FMCs and arrive swooping so not only can't you charge on the turn its conjured you also can't charge next turn because you have to switch flight mode. You have to wait 3 turns before the BT can even enter combat. The KoS not only can assualt a turn earlier, but it also is a Lvl1 psyker (so can summon or psychic shriek) and has an amazing run move to go for cover

 CrownAxe wrote:

 The Internet is for Khorn wrote:

wtnind wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:
For those who summon what are the preferred units to summon in?

For possession you want LoC if it is early in the game and you need more support/AA. If it is late in the game you want a keeper of secrets. If you are getting tabled you might go for a GUO deep striking into a ruin but depends on VP etc.

Agree except with keeper of secrets. If you need a CC FMC then summoning a bloodthirster is better.

Bloodthirsters are awful to summon. They are FMCs and arrive swooping so not only can't you charge on the turn its conjured you also can't charge next turn because you have to switch flight mode. You have to wait 3 turns before the BT can even enter combat. The KoS not only can assualt a turn earlier, but it also is a Lvl1 psyker (so can summon or psychic shriek) and has an amazing run move to go for cover

Agreed. Now if only GW would produce a KoS model that I'm willing to buy.

The best luck out of daemons I have is with an almost pure cc army, it's also the one I find most fun to play. Run plague drones up the field, drop a GUO next to em and watch as the opponent throws everything but the kitchen sink to cause a wound. Mean while this lets you run khorne puppies, blood letters, daemonettes, flame chariots, whatever! Straight up the field and into the faces of the enemy. Now key GOU placement is key cause good players will just tie him up and ignore him but if you get him in the right place even good players get annoyed to the point that they throw way too much at him and allow you to get into cc.