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Hey there, I have not posted here in quite some time, but with the release of the three new End Times books I decided to try out the new Legions of Chaos rules against 2 opponents, High Elves (Host of the Eternity King) and Empire. Tbh, nothing much has changed on the Chaos side for me, the High Elves replaced their achers with Repeater Crossbowmen and the Empire are just Halberdier hordes and knights.

My typical list is - 34 WoC (MoN,Halberds), 2x7 Knights (MoN), 3 Skullcrushers, Hellcannon, Daemon Prince (MoN) and 2 level 2 Sorcs (Death and Undeath for giggles)

Maybe i'm doing something fundamentally wrong when I play (shaking off the rust from about a year not playing) but so far I have the following issues:

1) Phoenix Guard. Seriously, my Halberd wielding MoN Warriors just can't win. On paper I always think this is a good matchup for me, they're squishy, i'm heavily armoured. But I keep forgetting about that goddamn 4+ Ward save. Even with the help of a chariot I just can't kill or break the unit.
2) Hordes. Considering the list i'm currently tinkering with above, I am having a hard time breaking or killing my way through Halberdier hordes. Even with Knight support with my Warriors.
3) Using my Daemon Prince opposed to the silly 3++ rerolling Tzeentch Lord of boredom. I used my prince to tie up 230~ pts of Empire Knights for the entire game, By accident. (They charged me) But I thought to myself, perhaps that is a good role for him, completely eliminate an entire unit that would otherwise be able to flank and break me.
4) Bloodcrushers. Awesome on paper, fear-inducing on the battlefield. Until they can't restrain and charge the nearest horde block.

I'm getting annoyed with losing so regularly against these 2 armies (HE and Empire), and my abysmal luck does not help (Empire Halberdiers killing off 2 Juggernauts and reducing the 3rd to 1 Wound? On a 2+ save? GODDAMN IT KHORNE! Why have you forsaken me :( )
I've used screening hounds to a degree of success in the past, but since the High Elf game (they died, and my knights behind them panicked and ran away ¬¬) I'm keeping them away from the battlefield until my Knights learn some goddamn discipline.

Any advice from you fellows that play against HE and Empire regularly is most welcome.

-Izzy

Sounds like you are just having some bad dice rolls.

Yeah, I do have horrific dice rolls. Tis why I play WoC and SM in 40k. Pretty much everything is on 3's.

God knows what would happen with an army below WS4 O_o


Also, ranked Chaos Knights? Effective? Useful? Anyone use them ranked up these days?

My opinion on the knights is that they are like terminators in 40k. They look great on paper but if you roll a stinking 1 then you lose a 40+ point model and each one really hurts. Generally for their points, bloodcrushers are just plain more effective for the points, just make sure to keep a bsb close enough to keep them from going berserk on a huge brick of dudes.

Gorebeast chariots are also very effective against elves and phoenix guard because of the impact hits and mark of nurgle makes them so hard to kill. Overall though, the elves are pretty solid and very hard to kill. Maybe have something with a trickster shard if you find yourself facing them a lot so they have to reroll? I think it works on rank and file models? Haha goodluck!

My best trick with knights is rolling ones. Running through a forest, roll a one, hit by a skink blowpipe, roll a one.

Point for point, Skullcrushers are far better. 225 points for nine wounds, compared to 200 points for five.

Consider sticking the Other Tricksters Shard on the Daemon Prince and send him into the Pheonix Guard, his high initative means no re-rolls, and S4 vs T5 means that they need 5's then 5's, plus you still have your armour. Then you proceed to kill 4-5 a turn and hold them up all game. With Soul Feeder, he will refuse to die. If he is held up by a unit of knights half his points, then the opponent is the one holding you up.

Keep in mind that Phoenix Guard are meant to be that unit that can hold up literally *anything* and laugh... Most of the time I see them it's also with an added character toting the Ring of Fury for easy, instant access to a 3++.
You kill them the way you kill any other annoying, potentially unkillable unit: Final Trans, Dreaded 13th, initiative-hex + Purplefun/Pit. Or else just chaff 'em up or control their movement, (Lore of Slaanesh and/or Miasma from Shadow are excellent for this!).

Other Trickster's is okay, but note that on the likes of a DP you're also effectively losing him from doing anything else all game to clog up a unit that might even be worth slightly less than he is... (plus PG are notorious for carrying the Razor Banner, so any wounds they do inflict will be at -2 modifier, and DP's are rather prone to getting whittled away by massed S4.)

If you're going to simply throw a blocker at these guys, then you're *much* better off letting them chew on a couple of Chaos Spawn, (MoT is actually fun for the Breath attack in combat potential!), and/or a pair of Beasts of Nurgle. (most heinously broken unit in the entire freaking game!)

The issue with Phoenix guard vs Warriors is that they're durable enough to shake off attacks. The best way to deal with them is death magic + Beasts of Nurgle. Doom and Darkness then Beast of nurgle in the flank. They can't wound you, you get 1 wound on them, they draw combat. They can't reform due to low leadership.

As for the Prince, Just take the Nurgle Prince and throw him into stuff. He's unbreakable and tanky. Charge, reform so that you can see out of combat, start throwing out Purple suns/Death snipes.

Bloodcrushers aren't that great. SKULLCRUSHERS however...

Warriors are perfect for taking out any sub-optimal empire list. And by that I mean the non-netlist Empire list.(Knightstars and the like.)