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Now, that's it out, how is the BA codex? Is it everything you guys wanted?

I was incredibly upset that assault marines were moved out of the troop slot and added to a crowded fast attack slot, really upset but now that I have poured over the codex for a few hours , I'm really liking what I am seeing .
The mark of a good codex is how many useful units it has ( I am strictly a tournament player ) and while the codex is not over powering in any one thing it's pretty good in A LOT of things ,
an LR crusader with assault terminators , a land speeder squadron with heavy flamer / melta combo , a DC unit with jump packs , a drop pod with devastators with heavy flamers and Sargent with dual flamers , a priest with the jump pack relic and an assault squad with jump packs and melta , a storm raven with scouts , the dreadnoughts, Gabriel Seth, astorogath , cheap prest HQ , Dante , captain Kaelen( not sure of his name as I type this but the guy that let's you re toll reserves ) ...lots of solid fundamentals ....over all pretty good and should be fun to play

I was wrong , and I'll eat crow happily

 mk2 wrote:
I was incredibly upset that assault marines were moved out of the troop slot and added to a crowded fast attack slot, really upset but now that I have poured over the codex for a few hours , I'm really liking what I am seeing .
The mark of a good codex is how many useful units it has ( I am strictly a tournament player ) and while the codex is not over powering in any one thing it's pretty good in A LOT of things ,
an LR crusader with assault terminators , a land speeder squadron with heavy flamer / melta combo , a DC unit with jump packs , a drop pod with devastators with heavy flamers and Sargent with dual flamers , a priest with the jump pack relic and an assault squad with jump packs and melta , a storm raven with scouts , the dreadnoughts, Gabriel Seth, astorogath , cheap prest HQ , Dante , captain Kaelen( not sure of his name as I type this but the guy that let's you re toll reserves ) ...lots of solid fundamentals ....over all pretty good and should be fun to play

I was wrong , and I'll eat crow happily

Glad to hear it. Good to hear GW may be making amends and writing good rules. Once they get their eventual turn, I hope DA get a boost. Although I must admit, them removing Assault Marines out of the troops choice kind of makes my brain hurt.

Well, removing AM from the troop section is not a big deal.
Tacticals got better with access to heavy flamers.
Or you could just run two sniper a Scout units with cloaks.
In a competitive setting you'll need some way to claim objectives and AM were never meant to remain stationary.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, removing AM from the troop section is not a big deal.
Tacticals got better with access to heavy flamers.
Or you could just run two sniper a Scout units with cloaks.
In a competitive setting you'll need some way to claim objectives and AM were never meant to remain stationary.

It is if you don't play from a tournament standpoint, rather a thematic one. It really just ruins the fluff for some people not letting them JP spam. I mean, this does make since for a BA army.

 goblinking201 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, removing AM from the troop section is not a big deal.
Tacticals got better with access to heavy flamers.
Or you could just run two sniper a Scout units with cloaks.
In a competitive setting you'll need some way to claim objectives and AM were never meant to remain stationary.

It is if you don't play from a tournament standpoint, rather a thematic one. It really just ruins the fluff for some people not letting them JP spam. I mean, this does make since for a BA army.

What should I say. I have a full BA jump pack army, no Tacticals and no Scouts.

Im my (strictly personal) opinion, is not a bad codex
not at all
however, is not awesome

it's... well... awesomely average

i will need to test it for some match but at the moment i have the feel is "just another space marine" with some flavoured special unit (DC and SG) who in the long run can't seem much competitive

could be fun to play, however

and i would really love to be proven wrong on the field. i would really love it...

Not had a good read yet, but my BA army was all about jump infantry supported by bikes. Not the most competitive, would never win a tournie, but fun to play

Guess I will have to have a complete rethink!!! I can see the £££££££'s flying out my wallet now

Do BAs get better with ally? I don't have the codex, nor have I seen it being played, but a WS HQ handing out hit and run could be very nice for units like DC or sang guard. Cenurtions could also help with anti tank.

all the flamers BA can, and probably will, take makes IG players realy sad.

each-uisge wrote:
Im my (strictly personal) opinion, is not a bad codex
not at all
however, is not awesome

it's... well... awesomely average

i will need to test it for some match but at the moment i have the feel is "just another space marine" with some flavoured special unit (DC and SG) who in the long run can't seem much competitive

could be fun to play, however

and i would really love to be proven wrong on the field. i would really love it...

Yeah I'm right there with you , because of the usefulness of some of the stuff and some ridiculous early combos like double heavy flamer devastors with duo wielding flamer pistol Sargent dropping in a pod etc I think the codex is above average , look I think we can agree on one thing for sure .....this could have been sooooo much worse and it kinda isn't . It's not super great, it's not terrible but is pretty good .

Heavy Flamers are Sternguard/Tactical only.

Played 3 games with it so far. 2 of which were 2000pts against Tau and I got tabled in both. The third was against a Flesh Tearers list in which I tabled the other guy, that was at 600pts. List is ok at first glance, didn't notice much difference however I am disappointed with Assault Marines being moved to FA and Baal Predator going to HS. Apart from that it looks good.

Hope you didn't already have a bunch of DC, Razors, Dreads, Priests, or ASM, because the changes will be a couple hundred bucks worth of inconvenience...

Makumba wrote:
Do BAs get better with ally? I don't have the codex, nor have I seen it being played, but a WS HQ handing out hit and run could be very nice for units like DC or sang guard. Cenurtions could also help with anti tank.

all the flamers BA can, and probably will, take makes IG players realy sad.

Literally every army is better with an ally...

 jreilly89 wrote:
Now, that's it out, how is the BA codex? Is it everything you guys wanted?

Yes, it is.
My only "issue" is with some weird stuff.
Like ASM/DC no longer being Troops, Priests being HQ and I don't understand Tycho.
But I am really excited and pleased with everything else.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Do BAs get better with ally? I don't have the codex, nor have I seen it being played, but a WS HQ handing out hit and run could be very nice for units like DC or sang guard. Cenurtions could also help with anti tank.

all the flamers BA can, and probably will, take makes IG players realy sad.

Literally every army is better with an ally...

Eldar seem to do alright on their own. To be more precise am asking if BA are like GK, better with marine ally , because sm give them the centurions or pods they need. Or are they like DE where the list building of every army starts with opening of codex eldar and checking how much a farseer costs.

AlexRae wrote:Heavy Flamers are Sternguard/Tactical only.

yeah i saw it
also, heavy flamer is heavy (weird!) and AFAIK cannot be fired the round pod came down

BaalSNAFU wrote:Hope you didn't already have a bunch of DC, Razors, Dreads, Priests, or ASM, because the changes will be a couple hundred bucks worth of inconvenience...

yeah i have... hopefully, i only have one LR

each-uisge wrote:

AlexRae wrote:Heavy Flamers are Sternguard/Tactical only.

yeah i saw it
also, heavy flamer is heavy (weird!) and AFAIK cannot be fired the round pod came down

BaalSNAFU wrote:Hope you didn't already have a bunch of DC, Razors, Dreads, Priests, or ASM, because the changes will be a couple hundred bucks worth of inconvenience...

yeah i have... hopefully, i only have one LR

Uhh, heavy flamers are assault 1 AFAIK.

Heavy flamers are assault 1.

Just got mine; here are my first impressions.

First the book is gorgeous and far more decorative than any codex I've seen prior. The organization is FAR better than the 6th edition hard backs (like Tyranid wtf?), and it seems easy enough to get the information you need quickly.

What strikes me the most is how CHEAP everything is!!!
Nearly all of the HQ/characters went down a LOT - probably an average of 50 points, some 75 points cheaper, I realize some got some downgrading but still.
Tactical squad with veteran upgrade, missile launcher and flamer (both you pay for now) is still cheaper than last codex and with free FC.
Scout and Assault squads are cheaper and with free FC.
Devastators are much cheaper!
Baal predator with sponsons is cheaper
Vindicator with Over-Charged Engines and Seize-Shield still cheaper than naked-vindicator in last codex
And the Whirlwind is real cheap (almost worth using now hah).

The only thing I can see right away that went up was the Attack Bikes by 5 points.

The relics look awesome and the +1 Initiative on the charge, plus army wide Furious Charge is tremendous. I know there is some heartache about Assault Marines moving back to FA, but given the costs of things, you can take a lot more of them now.

Also since Dante is now a Lord of War, you can still take Dante + 2HQ's... all the more reason to field him since he is super badarse now.

Now to play some games!

As I understand it we can't take centurions nor the AA available to the regular marines, and ad the storm talon to that list.

Not really a problem, but it would be nice to down some flyers.

And one thing I don't get (bear with me, haven't been able to play for a while) is the honour guard and sanguinary guard. Are they elites even when accompanying the HQ?
Because that I see as a problem.

Otherwise I like the codex, seems pretty balanced and should be fun to play.

And as for expanding, I think I will get a land speeder squad for the money I got for Christmas. Just to figure out their loadouts

 danesk wrote:
As I understand it we can't take centurions nor the AA available to the regular marines, and ad the storm talon to that list.

Not really a problem, but it would be nice to down some flyers.

And one thing I don't get (bear with me, haven't been able to play for a while) is the honour guard and sanguinary guard. Are they elites even when accompanying the HQ?
Because that I see as a problem.

Otherwise I like the codex, seems pretty balanced and should be fun to play.

And as for expanding, I think I will get a land speeder squad for the money I got for Christmas. Just to figure out their loadouts

Ah right on. Yeah, DA I think will have the same problems when theirs gets redone. As for the LS loadouts, double MM or Typhoon Missile and Assault Cannon seem to do well.

Things I don't like:
- Baal pred being moved to heavy and losing scout. 115pts for a flamestorm cannon is silly price. I own 4 flamestorm and 2 AC baals which will not be seeing action.
- Priests being moved to HQ is ok but losing the choice of taking 3 in 1 slot is a huge hindrance on the amount of priests I own.
- Assault marines being moved to FA. Not as big a deal as the other two, but means you can't run a full jp army without detachments.

Things others may not like:
- Tycho losing dead mans hand. Massive waste of points now.
- AM not being able to take razors or LRs as DTs. Big deal for many players.

All the rest I am exceptionally happy with. And have a large enough force to accomodate any changes.

What I LOVE:
- JP death company being 23pts.
- SG being 33pts.
- Dante having ap2 at initiative plus EW.
- Mephy coming down in price and gaining IC status. More than making up for the nerfs he recieved.
- 5 man assault marines having the option of 2 specials and a combi for the sarge.
- FC all round and the option of adding +1 I all round with +1 elites.
- Sanguinary powers.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Things I don't like:
- Baal pred being moved to heavy and losing scout. 115pts for a flamestorm cannon is silly price. I own 4 flamestorm and 2 AC baals which will not be seeing action.
- Priests being moved to HQ is ok but losing the choice of taking 3 in 1 slot is a huge hindrance on the amount of priests I own.
- Assault marines being moved to FA. Not as big a deal as the other two, but means you can't run a full jp army without detachments.

Things others may not like:
- Tycho losing dead mans hand. Massive waste of points now.
- AM not being able to take razors or LRs as DTs. Big deal for many players.

All the rest I am exceptionally happy with. And have a large enough force to accomodate any changes.

What I LOVE:
- JP death company being 23pts.
- SG being 33pts.
- Dante having ap2 at initiative plus EW.
- Mephy coming down in price and gaining IC status. More than making up for the nerfs he recieved.
- 5 man assault marines having the option of 2 specials and a combi for the sarge.
- FC all round and the option of adding +1 I all round with +1 elites.
- Sanguinary powers.

You forgot affordable fast tri-las pred. For points and durability, perhaps the best dakka in the book.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Things I don't like:
- Baal pred being moved to heavy and losing scout. 115pts for a flamestorm cannon is silly price. I own 4 flamestorm and 2 AC baals which will not be seeing action.
- Priests being moved to HQ is ok but losing the choice of taking 3 in 1 slot is a huge hindrance on the amount of priests I own.[u]
- Assault marines being moved to FA. Not as big a deal as the other two, but means you can't run a full jp army without detachments.

Things others may not like:
- Tycho losing dead mans hand. Massive waste of points now.
- AM not being able to take razors or LRs as DTs. Big deal for many players.

All the rest I am exceptionally happy with. And have a large enough force to accomodate any changes.

What I LOVE:
- JP death company being 23pts.
- SG being 33pts.
- Dante having ap2 at initiative plus EW.
- Mephy coming down in price and gaining IC status. More than making up for the nerfs he recieved.
- 5 man assault marines having the option of 2 specials and a combi for the sarge.
- FC all round and the option of adding +1 I all round with +1 elites.
- Sanguinary powers.

I'm in the same boat and I think a lot of other players are too, however more than anything this shocks me due to GW putting out the new model and you would think they would want to sell as many as possible. although I personally like my own model better and wouldn't but that one but I'm sure many are getting it.

-I really enjoy all the formations etc. we ended up with even if some of them aren't really competitive, they're at least fun.

-I really love our 3 tac 3 stormraven first turn DS and assault formation, even if its also just fun and not really the most competitive choice for average sized games. However In large games it looks amazing.

-DC are still amazing , my DC themed army thanks you GW

- obviously like everyone else I love that Dante is actually at least an option.

Overall the army seems to have viable CC builds and if you so choose can have viable shooting builds...... even though when I put them in my battlescribe I feel dirty and need to go take a shower.

regarding assault marines being removed as troops. I think this is just further evidance of a trend of GW moving away from the whole "making X troops" while operating on the theory that was can always fun unbound if we want a fluffy list. or run a special detachment, or use a formation...

"just use unbound" proably isn't what a lot of people wanna HEAR, but I do think that may be GW's thinking

ASM aren't good enough for me to use unbound in order to spam them.

The codex is getting back to BA roots, which is a codex compliant chapter with some unique units and quirks that heavily favors the rush of close combat. We have no more assault marines than a regular chapter (hence no ASM troops) but we still favor flight, which is why so many of our units are exclusively jump infantry (sanguinary guard) or rely on jump packs as their primary mode of transportation (death company, command squads, special characters, etc).

Moving assault marines out of the troops slot also allowed GW to make them the most powerful version of the unit in the game.Furious charge coupled with the +1 initfrom the baal strike force detachment means that theyre better at the job they were intended to do than any other ASM. We also have infinitely more weapon options than anyone elses jumpers (sans maybe space wolves), with access to all 4 special weapons, 3 different types of pistols, and even combi weapons on sergeants. And if you dont feel like jumping them across the table, you can take a fast rhino or a drop pod for FREE. No other army can boast that.

In short, while assault marines are no longer troops, they remain an excellent choice, and possibly the best in the fast attack slot. My setup at the moment is 10 dudes with double melta and a vet sgt with a combi melta. They can either jump around the table beating people up and slagging vehicles or deep strike reliably and accurately (with dante). I have 30+ assault marines, and i dont regret it one bit.

 th3maninblak wrote:
The codex is getting back to BA roots, which is a codex compliant chapter with some unique units and quirks that heavily favors the rush of close combat. We have no more assault marines than a regular chapter (hence no ASM troops) but we still favor flight, which is why so many of our units are exclusively jump infantry (sanguinary guard) or rely on jump packs as their primary mode of transportation (death company, command squads, special characters, etc).

Moving assault marines out of the troops slot also allowed GW to make them the most powerful version of the unit in the game.Furious charge coupled with the +1 initfrom the baal strike force detachment means that theyre better at the job they were intended to do than any other ASM. We also have infinitely more weapon options than anyone elses jumpers (sans maybe space wolves), with access to all 4 special weapons, 3 different types of pistols, and even combi weapons on sergeants. And if you dont feel like jumping them across the table, you can take a fast rhino or a drop pod for FREE. No other army can boast that.

In short, while assault marines are no longer troops, they remain an excellent choice, and possibly the best in the fast attack slot. My setup at the moment is 10 dudes with double melta and a vet sgt with a combi melta. They can either jump around the table beating people up and slagging vehicles or deep strike reliably and accurately (with dante). I have 30+ assault marines, and i dont regret it one bit.

Yea and a 5 man ASM squad with 2 meltas with an option to add Inferno pistols on the sarg. with a drop pod is really good. I'm sad about it from a I own a ton of jump marine models stand point but this codex is good and also still fun with everything they added.

Blood angels are still one of the fastest striking forces in the game right now , if not the best alpha strike force in the game. while not being an easy win button and needing skill to play them.

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding assault marines being removed as troops. I think this is just further evidance of a trend of GW moving away from the whole "making X troops" while operating on the theory that was can always fun unbound if we want a fluffy list. or run a special detachment, or use a formation...

"just use unbound" proably isn't what a lot of people wanna HEAR, but I do think that may be GW's thinking

But you don't have to go unbound with the Archangels Strike Force. Just take your old Assault Marines and run them as Vanguard Vets or Death Company. You don't even need to remodel, I have been doing this and it keeps the price down.