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Hey guys, just went to spray some lychguard, but it seems that my spray can has kicked the bucket sadly. I'm quite keen to paint them however, so I was wondering if it's possible to prime a model with abbadon black?

It's possible, but the durability of the overal paintjob will suffer. Primer serves two purposes, to bond with the material figure with the figure and to provide "tooth", a good surface for additional paint to adhere to. Abbadon black with give you the later, but not the former.

The good news is that you can use cheap basic hardware store flat black spray paint to prime your minis. Just test it out on a piece of sprue or other surface ahead of time so you know how fast the paint comes out of the can.

Should work..
It is a base paint..
Or you could pop out for a while and get more primer..
A tip for you as I leave..
It is worth it to keep a bottle of brush on primer at your house..

 Eilif wrote:
It's possible, but the durability of the overal paintjob will suffer. Primer serves two purposes, to bond with the material figure with the figure and to provide "tooth", a good surface for additional paint to adhere to. Abbadon black with give you the later, but not the former.

The good news is that you can use cheap basic hardware store flat black spray paint to prime your minis. Just test it out on a piece of sprue or other surface ahead of time so you know how fast the paint comes out of the can.

So does that mean it would chip off?

As long as you washed the minis before painting you should be fine..

It means that you shouldn't paint without primer. Ask yourself: Is it more important to paint them right this minute, or to make sure you do not have to strip and re-paint them later?

The good thing is that you can use inexpensive fundamental home improvement store smooth dark apply color to be able to excellent your own minis.

Buy a bottle of black Gesso to keep as a tool to prepare surfaces when you have no primer, or when it's just impractical to (for instance, time of day or weather). It's a wonderful surface prep!

Lord Ruir wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
It's possible, but the durability of the overal paintjob will suffer. Primer serves two purposes, to bond with the material figure with the figure and to provide "tooth", a good surface for additional paint to adhere to. Abbadon black with give you the later, but not the former.

The good news is that you can use cheap basic hardware store flat black spray paint to prime your minis. Just test it out on a piece of sprue or other surface ahead of time so you know how fast the paint comes out of the can.

So does that mean it would chip off?

Yes. Regular acrylic paint (like GW) does not bond to a bare surface as well and will be prone to coming off while painting or chipping off later. You can clean the model and use a good layer of varnish when you're done to help durrability, but a model with a basecoat of regular acrylic paint will always be more prone to chipping.

Gesso is cheap and a available at art stores. It's actually what I use for individual model and very small batches. Hardware store spray paint will also bond really well to plastic or metal models. It's what I use for larger batches of models. With the availability of cheaper, and more effective methods, there is really no good reason to use regular paint for priming.

Keep in mind though...gesso also will just provide "tooth". It has nothing in it to bond to the plastic/metal/resin beyond regular paint binders.

Old school primers, automotive primers and the like have etchants - basically mild acids/bases which will etch the surface of the item to be painted (primarily effective on metals) to give better adhesion than regular paints.

On HIPs plastic, enamel primers and others which have a high VOC content will actually melt the very top of the plastic to allow the primer to mix in a bit and form a very strong bond (so strong that sometimes the primer color remains after stripping). Most the environmentally friendly stuff doesn't though.

On resin, bendy plastic and the like - you basically want to clean extremely well and then rely on the candy coating concept to do your base coat. Not many chemicals (and none in regular hobby channels) bind directly with urethane resin, and enamel on bendy PVC...bad things. Instead, you apply a coat of paint all over everything. The paint sticks to the surface OK, but more so it sticks to itself. Provided that there isn't a break in the coating, it will be pretty strong.

If you are using a Green, water based or otherwise environmentally friendly primer - you can often skip it entirely and go straight to a base coat. Provided your base coat is matte, it will provide sufficient tooth. Provide your coverage is complete, it will provide comparable strength as the primer coat will.

That said - I still do prefer "primer" in a round about way. I normally tint a clear urethane varnish to match my color scheme. Urethanes have a higher adhesion strength than acrylics, so it sticks a bit better to things like resin, hard and soft plastic. It gives me an even base color to build up on (so things like GS putty don't become a problem getting even color tones). It also protects what is below from what will come above. I use a lot of hot paints (lacquers, oils and enamels) - and they will turn many plastics to goo before the paint dries.

I'm not sure I agree that Gesso isn't any better than regular paint in adhering to a surface. It doesn't have any etchants, but I think current formulations do "stick" better than plain black paint.

You're absolutely right about the High VOC content and melting. I believe that's the reason that cheap spray paint sticks so well to plastic models.

Also know the surface you are preparing.

FYI Reaper Bones figures are made out of a pvc/vinyl material that does not like many of the more readily available spray paints/primers from diy or department stores, but it is very friendly toward the Army Painter sprays and accepts acrylics very well straight from the bottle.

I have some Kobolds that I primed with flat black that are still tacky. Will put them in the dip soon.

 Eilif wrote:
I'm not sure I agree that Gesso isn't any better than regular paint in adhering to a surface. It doesn't have any etchants, but I think current formulations do "stick" better than plain black paint.

You're absolutely right about the High VOC content and melting. I believe that's the reason that cheap spray paint sticks so well to plastic models.

Part of it goes to how Gesso Works versus how acrylic paints work...

When you apply a gesso over a surface - it shrinks and contracts a lot. It is a bit like spandex on the fat guy...once it is on, it is pretty hard to get off (provided it didn't burst...). With acrylics, it only shrinks a little...for lack of a less sexist and offensive analogy...tight pants on the hot girl. Sure, they are tight - but not too hard to get off.

Gesso is also formulated to have more flex to it (designed for canvasses primarily...). Acrylic resins, especially those used in hobby paints tend to be a bit more brittle which can lead to flaking. Both the gesso and the paint do use that same acrylic binder (unless you get a hold of some old school gesso...but that is a bit harder to come by) - so the adhesion is the same. One of the reasons why Vallejo chose to go with an acrylic polyurethane primer versus a pure acrylic one. The polyurethane improves adhesion and resilience, while the acrylic component provides better adhesion of top coating paints to stick to it. One of the better options without going with a pure polyurethane (which can be temperamental and have their own issues to be dealt with to ensure proper paint adhesion) or a solvent based primer (which scare people and kill polar bears).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xraytango wrote:
Also know the surface you are preparing.

FYI Reaper Bones figures are made out of a pvc/vinyl material that does not like many of the more readily available spray paints/primers from diy or department stores, but it is very friendly toward the Army Painter sprays and accepts acrylics very well straight from the bottle.

I have some Kobolds that I primed with flat black that are still tacky. Will put them in the dip soon.

And to that point...know your surface. The Bones material really doesn't need a primer coat if you will be using acrylics. The structure of the PVC molecule is a bit like the fuzzy side of Velcro, feels sort of smooth - but a lot to grab a hold of. Acrylic will stick quite well to PVC without any primer at all. Of course, the water repelling properties of PVC mean that you can not thin that first coat too much...otherwise it will bead right up and roll off. The same will hold true for other PVC figures (Mantic, Privateer and some of the 1/72 stuff that is soft plastic...though there is a bit of polyethylene in there as well from back in the 1980s and early 1990s, which doesn't take any paint well).

Yes you can I do it all the time as long as its plastic Models and not resin or metal. As for chipping have had no such thing on any plastic model (some around 10 years old now) the only thing I wouldn't do it to is tanks or anything slab sided.

You use spray because its quicker and gives a more even finish it covers better but for troops yes you can get away with gw base black and a brush .

Method 1: Wait for a warmer day, spray then put next to a fan heater, put in the airing cupboard or use a hairdryer.
Method 2: Use an airbrush & do it inside.
Method 3: Prime them in the bathroom with an open window - only really viable if you live on your own!