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Recently I have been doing up some army lists and i have com to the question as to whether too take two assault squads and a vanguard veteran squad with two bike squads or to take two assault squads and three bike squads. The assault squads would be given flamers and the third bike squad would have a melta and a flamer so as to create a nice all round bike quad. I was wondering if the vanguard veteran squad would be worth it for I am basically giving it no upgrades and just keeping it as it is with all chainswords and one plasma pistol. The bike squad would have 5 bikers and as I said before a flamer and a meta.

What do you think?

Bikes are better in almost every other situation. They're faster, more durable, more shooty, able to jink to get at-will cover saves, and can carry all the special weapons. The only thing Assault Marines have going for them is that they're better in close combat (they get twice as many attacks).

I was wondering if the vanguard veteran squad would be worth it for I am basically giving it no upgrades and just keeping it as it is with all chainswords and one plasma pistol.

Vanguards are okay, I do think their extra attacks make them worth their points vs assault marines. Plasma Pistols are a bad buy - those 15 points are much better spent on a power weapon, or simply not spent at all.

Thanks!!!

For white scars there is almost no situation where the assault marines outperform a biker unit. They don't usually even get more attacks as they assault marines have to use their jump packs to move into position to make the assault. The bikers on the other hand get a S5 auto hit for every biker that makes it into b2b. This always better than a single extra WS4 S4 attack. Not to mention the completely superior shooting, jink cover save, and turbo boost. Assault marines in a white scars list are a kind of sad existence that under perform against pretty much any other option.

In a raven guard or ultramarine list they at least are not awful.

BTW you should look at a command squad on bikes versus a vanguard vets squad. The command squad is vastly better in a white scars army.

Yeah. I guess I should look at a command squad sooner or later. But I just haven't been bothered to because after buying the command squad I would have to buy more bikes that I wouldn't even use the men for. But thanks for your comments!!

I love assault marines. They are part of the foundation upon which marine battle companies rest. But their rules are just a bit lackluster these days. Bike are going to out perform them in almost every case, especially White Scars.

Not that the AM are useless. I take a 5 man bully squad frequently to go harass backfield objectives. They also work well in pod lists.

I’d focus the weapons on your bike squads rather then have them be all-arounders. You have the speed to get to your chosen target, you should make sure you have the guns to take it down.

Good point. thanks

Ever since bikes learned to assault multi-level structures the assault marine has been rendered obsolete. Really it comes down to the fact that assault marines aren't totally useless as a barebones squad and bikers are. If you can't afford to tart up bikers then field assault marines.

I'll provide an example:

Lets say I have 100points to spend left on one hand I can buy three bikes and then give them 20 points in upgrades which is stupid because the day three of any (infantry) not named centurion do anything for a marine army is the day of rapture, or I buy five assault marines and use the 15 points to get their squad leader a veterancy or buy then a melta bomb and a flamer. And they might actually do something before they die.

Bikes need points love and if you can't find the points to spend on it do yourself a favor and don't do it. You'll be much happier with the result.

Thanks for your opinion

 ionusx wrote:
Ever since bikes learned to assault multi-level structures the assault marine has been rendered obsolete. Really it comes down to the fact that assault marines aren't totally useless as a barebones squad and bikers are. If you can't afford to tart up bikers then field assault marines.

I'll provide an example:

Lets say I have 100points to spend left on one hand I can buy three bikes and then give them 20 points in upgrades which is stupid because the day three of any (infantry) not named centurion do anything for a marine army is the day of rapture, or I buy five assault marines and use the 15 points to get their squad leader a veterancy or buy then a melta bomb and a flamer. And they might actually do something before they die.

Bikes need points love and if you can't find the points to spend on it do yourself a favor and don't do it. You'll be much happier with the result.

3x bikes + 2 flamers. Cheaper than your 100pt limit, better in sooo many ways than your ASM (Esp for white scars).

Wow