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I read the Dark Angles codex and notice something unusual. If the tac squad is less than 10 men strong, they can have a heavy weapon. So does this mean 5 guys can get a lascannon?

HQ:
Librarian+PFG-95
Company Command Squad, Standard of Fortitude-185

Troops:
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90

CAD 2

Librarian-65

Troops:
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90
5 Tac, Lascannon-90

Total=1365

What should I get with the remaining 135 pts?

Is this a good idea or a horrible idea? Should I skip the pfg and banner of fortitude?

My experience with CSM havocs squads with 4 lascannons is a bad idea as they get focused on and die. I am not sure if Long Fangs still get fire discipline in order to split fire. Spamming Long Fangs would be better.

If I skip the pfg and banner of fortitude, I could get 3 cads.

Librarian-65

6x5 Tac Marines, Lascannon-90x6=540

Total=605x3=1815

Is there a fortification that can house 18 squads? Or should I just get a ADL?

 Filch wrote:
If the tac squad is less than 10 men strong, they can have a heavy weapon. So does this mean 5 guys can get a lascannon?

Correct, note however that this is also true for the standard Space Marine codex (Ultramarines or Imperial Fists chapter tactics would be quite good here perhaps).

As to your list, it's incredibly static, you're basically forfeiting the movement phase, and have zero chance of capturing any objectives that you can't stand on from the start.
I understand your concern about Havocs, but there are options in between "4 lascannons in a squad" and "1 lascannon in a squad" - you could easily take some Devastator squads with two lascannons and get a Signum basically for free, whilst not making them an easy target priority.

Rather than the Standard of Fortitude, consider the Standard of Devastation - if you're already set on not moving, quadrupling boltgun shots will help against horde army lists.

A fortification would certainly aid this list (such as a Firestorm Redoubt or Fortress of Redemption) - gives you somewhere to embark the command squad should you choose to increase the size of the banner's 'bubble', could provide some anti-air etc.

Honestly 6 devs squads would perform a lot better.

Did not know about standard space marines getting the same option and they can use Imperial Fists tactics. That alone makes them so much better.

I did not know you could get a free signum on a dev squad.

If spamming dev squads is better, then Long Fangs with split fire are 2x better. Space wolves still have that right?

Based on my experience with Havocs (devastators for CSM) having 4 lascannons in that squad is a liability as they do not have atSKnF, they will get shot at, they will have casualties, they will fail a morale check, they will run off the board. 4 Autocannons on the other hand is great and minimal loss.

I mean aside from the fact that I don't think you would ever win a malestrom mission unless you table your opponent. There was a point where I considered something similar for my CSM. As cultists with mark of tzeench on a skysheild = a 3++ I was planning on bubble wrapping my havocs with cultists for a super mean gunline. I abbondoned the idea because 1) chaos lascannons are borderline impossible to find(only 1 comes with pack of havocs) and 2 it isn't that hard to beat. Drop pod armies will have a field day for example. Imperial fists will suffer further from a lack of durability.

Though you have a lot of firepower you have an issue of Bolters and lascannons want different targets, infantry and tanks respectively. Anything with a vehicle cover save is going to drive you crazy. Wave serpants and devilfish both can come with a 3+ save.

12 or 18 lascannons is not enough to kill jinking wave serpents i guess.
The bolt gunners are just there as ablative wounds for the las-cannonier

I forget, which chapter tactics or imperial guard command allows ignore cover shots?

Only the sicaran and the typhoon is the only thing I know that has the fire power and the ignores cover ability.

What if instead of spamming 5 tacs with a lascannon, I spam missile launchers? saves 10pts each squad.

Minimal list

Librarian-65

5 Tac Marines, missile launcher-80
5 Tac Marines, missile launcher-80
5 Tac Marines, missile launcher-80
5 Tac Marines, missile launcher-80
5 Tac Marines, missile launcher-80
5 Tac Marines, missile launcher-80

total=545 pts

Now we can get other stuff with the 955pts

 Filch wrote:
12 or 18 lascannons is not enough to kill jinking wave serpents i guess.

A WS has 3 HP, and can downgrade pens to glances on a 2+ (if it didn't shoot the shield) - so you need 3 hits with an armour pen roll of 3+ to kill it. So 4.5 hits.
It'll have a 3+ Jink save (holofields), so 6.75 hits.
You'll need to roll to hit (assuming BS4), so 10.125 Lascannons to kill a Wave Serpent (obviously if it's fired it's shield it's more vulnerable).
So, 12-18 lascannons = 1-and-a-bit dead WS's per turn, assuming all of them can draw line-of-sight.

 Filch wrote:
I forget, which chapter tactics or imperial guard command allows ignore cover shots?

Don't know of any Chapter Tactics that do (maybe Forgeworld ones?), but a Divination Librarian with Perfect Timing is hilarious.

 Filch wrote:
What if instead of spamming 5 tacs with a lascannon, I spam missile launchers? saves 10pts each squad.

Saves 5 points per squad, and I'd really really suggest against it - S9 means a threat to AV14, and AP2 = chance to explode whereas ML's are stuck clipping HP off things that aren't open-topped. Massive difference for only 5pts.

It looks like it was doomed from the start.
10 lascannons to kill 1 WS? Pointless to fight WS. But thanks for the math hammer explainaintion.

Oh, and I did misread the missile launcher cost. I thought it was just 10 pts but it is 15 pts of junk.

Can heavy bolters hurt a WS? What are the synergies with heavy bolters?

 Filch wrote:
Did not know about standard space marines getting the same option and they can use Imperial Fists tactics. That alone makes them so much better.

I did not know you could get a free signum on a dev squad.

If spamming dev squads is better, then Long Fangs with split fire are 2x better. Space wolves still have that right?

Based on my experience with Havocs (devastators for CSM) having 4 lascannons in that squad is a liability as they do not have atSKnF, they will get shot at, they will have casualties, they will fail a morale check, they will run off the board. 4 Autocannons on the other hand is great and minimal loss.

Max long fangs with LC.
Max land speeders With typhoon missles and MM
fill the rest of your points with greyhunters with tripple plasma or melta or flamer in drop pods or rhinos.


Pretty brutal shooting list. It's the kind of army that doesn't lose if it gets the first turn. Even vs serpent spam.