Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I am trying this list on here to see what you guys think. It's mainly for fun but I might run it in a weekly tourney to changed things up. I am running this to generate warp charges. I am also using the helbrute datasheet to run the murder pack.

HQ- Daemon, Tzeentch, arm our, lvl 3, wings (310)
Sorcerer, lvl 3, Tzeentch, (125)

Elite- helbrute murder pack 5 helbrutes with TL Lascannon and missile launcher (675)

Troops- Thousand Sons 4x +sorcerer in rhino with havoc (197) x2
Thousand Sons 6x +sorcerer in rhino with havoc (243) x2

Fast Attack- HelDrake (170) x3

So the idea would be to run the rhinos out to grab objectives, sorcerer stay behind and cast, drop the daemon down to take out opposite psyker to lower there warp charges. Heldrakes pushing back and keeping the others from advancing to the troops and off of the other objectives, the helbrute murder pack allow you to chose from the raged table so place them I the back and get double shots of the weapons (10 Lascannon shots and 10 missile launchers) taking out the heavys they have. If an objective reveals sky fire move them to it to hold to gain that as well. Might not need to if the held rakes can meteoric decent the enemy air out of the sky.

I have all the models needed minus one HelDrake. And the thousand sons conversions.

Let me know what you think. Like I said it's more for fun so be gentle. This comes out to 2500 exactly so no room for upgrades without down grades.

I don't have the Helbrute Dataslate, but I do believe the Helbrutes (as a Formation) do not take up an Elites slot within the CAD, but exist outside. While the intention of the Helbrutes is valid, it still leaves them vulnerable to tarpits or Knights. They will provide an enormous amount of firepower of course to neutralize a target each turn, but any target saturation will allocate your firepower and waste shots.

I would decrease some of your squad sizes to min and give your HQs Spell Familiars.

I am not sure why csm players need 3 baledrakes with AP3 when the inferno bolters are ap3.

I have seen a list like this nearly a year ago and that SoB argued with me when I suggested he needed lascannons for anti tank.

Regardless if you listen to me or not, have fun with 3 baledrakes.

Haha, I think it would be worthwhile if someone squeezed a SM Company onto the table. I do agree that it's excessive if not for a counter-air role. For 2500 pts, I would definitely consider taking Allied IG (or IA v13) for some more noteworthy template fun.

Gargoyles on the Rhinos with Havoks is kind of Thousand Sunsy and rather effective for the price.

Yeah, at 2500 points, this army is going to face some tough opposition. I am not sure if you have all the pieces you need to make it work.

I am looking at this army from the standpoint of an opponent. The murder pack is going to attract a lot of attention for a few rounds, but it's not exactly a death star. The squad doesn't have split fire, so you are going to be shooting down one thing per turn.

For the DP, while it's going to have a nice invulnerable save, it's not exactly Nurgle. You are going to have some fun keeping this one alive, I imagine it's going to be flying all the time and casting psychic powers. Which means perils, and which means there's a good chance it kills itself.

Those are your big threats. Triple Heldrakes were quite a thing in 6th edition, but the baleflamer nerf really changes the dynamics of these guys.

A few things to think about with this list:

- A Fire Raptor is less points than 3 Heldrakes, can attack 3 targets the same turn and probably does more damage.

- Nurgle DPs are pretty tough. I get that this is a themed list, that would be only break I would make with the fluff.

- Not every model in a TS army has to be a Rubric Marine. Consider some traditional CSMs to get the points down on individual squads.

- One of the things I like about your army is the number of psychic points you get each turn. Something I would love to see is a second CAD with another sorcerer to get the number up past 10.

- One of the things that's wasted on your army is the Helbrute Murder Pack, which has a lot of AV but can only shoot at one target per turn. Consider making them more assaulty to get the most out of them, the lascannons are not going to do a lot for you.

- Consider dropping the Helbrutes altogether and go with a couple squads of Havocs or Obliterators instead.

- Something that would be fluffy and nasty to have to deal with is a Contemptor Dread with a conversion beamer. At range, it might actually be more effective than the whole murder pack.

 Aurelian wrote:
I don't have the Helbrute Dataslate, but I do believe the Helbrutes (as a Formation) do not take up an Elites slot within the CAD, but exist outside. While the intention of the Helbrutes is valid, it still leaves them vulnerable to tarpits or Knights. They will provide an enormous amount of firepower of course to neutralize a target each turn, but any target saturation will allocate your firepower and waste shots.

I would decrease some of your squad sizes to min and give your HQs Spell Familiars.

Thanks for the heads up. I don't see myself running this competitively past the weekly tournament. It's free to enter so no real waist. It's more to try that datasheet out. I did think of dropping a rhino for spell familiars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Filch wrote:
I am not sure why csm players need 3 baledrakes with AP3 when the inferno bolters are ap3.

I have seen a list like this nearly a year ago and that SoB argued with me when I suggested he needed lascannons for anti tank.

Regardless if you listen to me or not, have fun with 3 baledrakes.

I like the bale drakes as a flying unit more than because of the AP3 I like having the units as in the area I play they are widely underused (flyers) so it's common to run into people who have onlyed played them once if ever. Now the big monthly tourneys, where the more experienced players always end show up, it's not as effective.

With the helbrute pack I get 10 las cannon shots so I agree with you that I need them there.

I am looking at getting a few bike packs soon as a fast attack but until then I only have warp talons and spawn as the other FA option. A pack of ten WT is over 300pts so that takes out 2 heldrakes. And the spawn get ripped to fast in that game due to the no save.

Thank you for the help


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Gargoyles on the Rhinos with Havoks is kind of Thousand Sunsy and rather effective for the price.

I normally add this as well but pts wise left it off.

I would change 2 drakes to Hellblades for 230. Saves you 120 points. I would add more bodies to the t sons units with the savings.

With the Murderpack, you only get to choose the Crazed result for Brutes that actually take a crazed token, not for the whole squad each shooting phase. Not sure if you were banking on this, but just FYI. It is handy, however, when your front Brute (who is armed with LC/ML, for example), takes a wound and thus a Crazed token: you can then have him fire twice, while moving your other Brutes up. Additionally, if he gets immobilized, you can break him off from the squad and still have him fire twice for that turn.

I might recommend dropping a drake for 2 Oblits, who complement the Murderpack by deepstriking in and taking some of the heat off of them (as well as your troops and DP). You can mark them with Tzeentch and have a versatile unit that can also withstand some low AP firepower.

 Filch wrote:
I have seen a list like this nearly a year ago and that SoB argued with me when I suggested he needed lascannons for anti tank.

What a stubborn jerk!

But seriously, is the murder pack not enough? I mean, whatever vehicle that thing fires at will be wrecked! 5 TL STR 9 AP 2 shots and 5 STR 8 shots.

Thanks for the help guys. Some of the recommendations I really like. I haven't looked at any FW stuff so I am not sure what some of the units you guys have called out are. Thanks for the help


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thantos Kalev wrote:
With the Murderpack, you only get to choose the Crazed result for Brutes that actually take a crazed token, not for the whole squad each shooting phase. Not sure if you were banking on this, but just FYI. It is handy, however, when your front Brute (who is armed with LC/ML, for example), takes a wound and thus a Crazed token: you can then have him fire twice, while moving your other Brutes up. Additionally, if he gets immobilized, you can break him off from the squad and still have him fire twice for that turn.

I might recommend dropping a drake for 2 Oblits, who complement the Murderpack by deepstriking in and taking some of the heat off of them (as well as your troops and DP). You can mark them with Tzeentch and have a versatile unit that can also withstand some low AP firepower.

Yes I understand just stating that I would double shoot with the wepons setup I have. I like the idea of the oblits, but am worried of being to strong fire powered and not enough up front.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Yeah, at 2500 points, this army is going to face some tough opposition. I am not sure if you have all the pieces you need to make it work.

I am looking at this army from the standpoint of an opponent. The murder pack is going to attract a lot of attention for a few rounds, but it's not exactly a death star. The squad doesn't have split fire, so you are going to be shooting down one thing per turn.

For the DP, while it's going to have a nice invulnerable save, it's not exactly Nurgle. You are going to have some fun keeping this one alive, I imagine it's going to be flying all the time and casting psychic powers. Which means perils, and which means there's a good chance it kills itself.

Those are your big threats. Triple Heldrakes were quite a thing in 6th edition, but the baleflamer nerf really changes the dynamics of these guys.

A few things to think about with this list:

- A Fire Raptor is less points than 3 Heldrakes, can attack 3 targets the same turn and probably does more damage.

- Nurgle DPs are pretty tough. I get that this is a themed list, that would be only break I would make with the fluff.

- Not every model in a TS army has to be a Rubric Marine. Consider some traditional CSMs to get the points down on individual squads.

- One of the things I like about your army is the number of psychic points you get each turn. Something I would love to see is a second CAD with another sorcerer to get the number up past 10.

- One of the things that's wasted on your army is the Helbrute Murder Pack, which has a lot of AV but can only shoot at one target per turn. Consider making them more assaulty to get the most out of them, the lascannons are not going to do a lot for you.

- Consider dropping the Helbrutes altogether and go with a couple squads of Havocs or Obliterators instead.

- Something that would be fluffy and nasty to have to deal with is a Contemptor Dread with a conversion beamer. At range, it might actually be more effective than the whole murder pack.

Thanks that's a lot of good info. I want to keep the murder pack as the main purpose of this list is to see if I like the murder pack/ warp charges. I do not know anything about the dread or the raptor. I do like nurgle princes, but I want to be able to drop him down to go against others such as other monsterous creatures and I feel the invul is better of against another monsterous even creature. Thanks for the feedback.
I might drop a HelDrake for a oblit squad though.