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This not for me, but for my brother, who is lost badly against my 1500 point UM list. He is rather disillusioned and it is not exactly fun playing him when he thinks he can't win. My list: Ultramarines ML2 Libby, Tact Squad with ML and flamer in Rhino, Drop Pod Tacs with MM, meltagun and combi-melta, Dev Cents with gravcannons, Vindicator, Stormtalon with skyhammer missiles and TH/SS Termies in LRC.

So how can he improve his army and what tactics could he use? I will post a list of all of his stuff:
Warboss with power klaw, not Mega-Armoured
Mega-Armoured Warboss, can stand in as Ghazkull Thraka.
Painboy
Big Mek with SAG
Boss Zagstruck
Grotsnik
Snikrot
5 Kommandos
15 Stormboyz
4 Trukks
Battlewagon
5 Lootas
5 Burnas
20 Grots (with Runtherds)
3 Bikers
5 Deffkoptas with rokkits
Stompa
Deff Dread
3 Killa Kans
30 Shoota Boyz
90 Choppa Boyz
10 Nobz, with varying weapons. (Mostly power klaws)
3 Mek Gunz, not specific

So, what is the best for his army and battle plan? He usually takes the mega-armoured Warboss with Da Lucky Stikk, puts him with 5 powerklaw eavy armour Nobs and a Painboy in a Battlewagon, puts as many choppa boyz in Trukks as he can with powerklaw Nobs, and the rest footslog. Grots are sometimes taken to camp objectives.

I'd skip the nob squad and fill the battle wagon with choppa boyz.

Then you have 48 truck boyz, 20 BW boyz, 15 Stormboyz and 3 nob bikers hitting the lines turn two.

Okay, he says that 20 boys are "useless". Apparently they cannot kill 10 Tactical Marines in a combat (assuming over two player turns). Also, is there any way that his Battlewagon can survive my Drop Pod assault with the multimelta and 2 melta shots? I've suggested bubblewrapping the Battlewagon, but he says it is a terrible idea.

Thank you for replying!

That made my monocle drop there. Is he taking nobs with the 20 boys? How familiar is he with the game?
20 boys alone nets you 80 attacks, at ws4. Drop that down to 19 boys, that's 76 attacks, throw in a nob with power klaw and tax squads go paceman.

I've eliminated terminator groups with boys an power klaw. The sheer number of wounds is boggling.

To get real saucy, put the warboss in with that group; give him the lucky Stikk. Now all your boys and nobs and warboss will be hitting on 3's. At 80+ attacks, your going to pac man anything

The Green Tide formation from W!G might be fun to try and get it cheap enough to get the stompa out there.

Or just the tide and his favorite choice of support. The best being the mek gunz and koptas .

Green Tide? Don't have the supplement, what does it do?

This is an example of it's use at 1850 (In the Army List forums)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/628084.page

The battlewagons odds of surviving a drop pod assault is low. But at the same time, no ork list should ever depend on the battlewagon to survive unless you have several battlewagons.

Being an Ork player is all about versatility on top of threat management. You can't make your Battlewagon too important, or everyone is going to single it out. You can't put too few trukks (if you're running a trukk list), or they'll just be popped off. You need koptas and bikes and other units to put pressure on at the same time as your boys so they don't get singled out.

Make something small look important, while the big thing looks unimportant. It's an odd balance.

Lobbas, Kannons, Kustom Mega Kannons, or ZZzap guns work just fine on Marines. Lobbas are good for putting annoying wounds on tac marines, while the AP value ot Kannons (both mega or not) can lay the hurt on. At BS3, they have a much higher chance at hitting anything.

Deffkoptas with TL rokkits are amazing. I have yet to go a game without them, and rarely do they not make up their point value. But you have to get on the sides of armour to get that sure thing.

I can't really go further right now, as I have to run off. But still, Orks can take Marines really well. It's just learning pains and most Ork players go through. We don't have that durability or simplicity as other armies, and every Orks playstyle is different.

Okay, he asks: "How can I get the orks to the marines?"

Put boyz in trukks and wagon turboboost first turn and second charge

If you really want to go cray cray,

Trukks can boost up to 24", Bwagons up to 18".

He has 4 trukks and a battle wagon, that's 68 boys to launch face first at the marines.

Deffkoptas can come up to support
Stormboys can present another threat

Run guns as lobbas or Kustom Mega Kannons and fire shots into the marines to cause some wounds.

Take the warboss with PK, painboy with the boys in battlewagon to provide higher leadership and the feel no pain.

Lootas can sit back with good LOS at 48" and fire as many shots as possible.

If you want to get cheeky or take pressure off boys, infiltrate the commandos as close as he can to the marines. They might not even survive the first round, but at least this way it's less shots on your trukks and wagons.

It is impossible that the marine player would be able to kill that many boys all in the first, even second turn. If every group of boys has a nob with powerklaw, once he gets into CC the marines will get shredded. Tanks peel open like oranges, people break apart. Between the 4 attacks on the charge with boys and the 3 with the nob (or is it 4?), nothing should survive.

Deffkoptas can hammer tanks or supports, using the Str 8 ap 3 rokkits that are twin linked.

Again, being Orks is trying to present as much threat as possible as soon as possible so you don't get piece mealed and shot bit by bit. Try and make as many things as intimidating as possible.

We are a glass cannon

Ork transports are there to get you across the table turn one and soak up some wounds. If it doesn't blow up, it's a bonus and usually requires a big bunch of transports..

Big units are better since they are more resilient and have a fantastic amount of attacks.

A few things ive noted about his units available (he has a good selection, but like no theme), so i will give an example of what id do to him were he facing me;

a BW with a MA warboss with DLS and a unit of 5 pk nobs.... plus 4 trukks of boys? well quite clearly we have a very expensive, slow and OTT killy unit inside 1 transport, with 4 other transports that in reality are not even on the same scale. So turn 1 im popping that battlewagon. then hes walking his best unit across the table 6" a turn... neutralised. i can then deal with his trukks while ignoring a good chunk of his power.



how to solve this? - personally, id like to see another wagon, but going with what he has;
split his threats, DLS warboss with MA in the battlewagon with 18 shoota or choppa boys, (id probably go shoota, as if you blow up the BW, the MA will prevent him being able to run, so you may as well shoot as you move). upgrade 1 to a nob give him a pk, stick a mek in there.

next unit, painboss in trukk with 10 choppa boys, upgrade one to nob, give him a pk, bring a mek.

next unit, proxy 3 nobs as meganobz, put them in a trukk, no upgrades needed on the megaz, just pks, then a ram on the trukk. (all vehicles should have the ram).

next units, 2 trukks with 11 choppa boyz, (hes probably got enough shoota boys to fill 1 trukk actually, so there also a good choice, good in assault still, but a little dakka is good for units you dont want to assault). add in the nob upgrade with pk and a mek if you can (will need to grab another HQ for the slotless).

so far we have 4 vehicles, 1 contains his warboss who will eat face with 18 dakkaboys ready to overload targets with wounds. 1 contains 3 megaz, is dirt cheap but oh so killy! they will eat most things. we have 1 with 11 boys who have FnP, they will be durable, give them armour for a 4+ with FNP, they will take a lot of punishment. finally we have 2 vehicles brimming with boys, yeh not as deadly as the last three, but you certainly dont want them getting into assault!



Here we have a theme.... its the in your ultramarines face theme!
All the vehicles simply want to rush at you, the megaz in the trukk want to aim for say your cents, vindi or LRC, they will eat whichever they reach.

if you go first and say you drop pod in (can UM drop pod turn 1?) and you blow up something, tell your bro to ignore that unit, they are now backfield while all his orks are charging your lines. if he goes first, tell him to rush you... aiming for weaknesses.

your marines, they would not want to meet the DLS boss, painboys or the other boys units tbh, the termies, they dont want boyz, they dont want to spend turns trying to kill off countless bodies while the nob with Pk forces some saves and the countless bodies make you really sweat as your rolling like 10 2+ saves... hint... you'll fail them soon

i hope this gives him an idea for the start of a list, if he needs more units he wants to select units that sync.... bikes... coptas....
Orks are not about eggs in 1 basket, there about medium eggs in lots of baskets. given the choice between 1 big egg and small eggs, everyone goes big egg.... between 4 medium eggs the choice is very difficult, as each egg is equally weighted..... except in this instance its not a lovely baby chick all cuddly and chirpy inside... its 12 orks ready to do some choppin!

EDIT: after your next game, can you post a report? like what happened, what units, so forth.... its hard to give more specific advice... maybe hes not letting the meks eat challenges? so his boss is dying, when his boss should be mincing up your units while the mek hopelessly dies to your lord. then next turn your more than likely looking at 1 lord with no unit remaining maybe hes backpedalling units once you drop pod? let us know, theres plenty he can do, but we need details now

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Okay, he asks: "How can I get the orks to the marines?"

run or drive. derp.

drive in trukks (several.. like 4-5) and a couple wagons. Or the Blitz brigade in the supplement (5 battlewagons that gain the scout rule)

run. with LOTS of boyz on foot. more boys then you have bullets. This is how I play. With Greentide from the supplement. its 10 squads of boys, up to 10 nobs, and a warboss. So a minimum of 100 boys+nobs+warboss in ONE unit. one single unit. a painboy gives all 100+ FNP. A weirdboy can make some crazy strong orks in combat..or teleport then entire mob across the board.

No offense but it sounds like your bro is disheartened after a loss and doesnt want to work to be successful. If he wants an easy army to win with sell orks and buy eldar/marines/tau/necrons. orks are a fun army to play with and CAN BE strong..but they are not a army to collect if you dont like losing while having TONS of fun. my $0.02


My greentide army looks like this..

100 choppa boyz = 600 points
10 powerklaw nobs = 350
Warboss with Big Boss Pole, powerklaw and shoota = 105 I think
painboy = 50
total is 1100. so in a 1500 point game you have 400 points to add bikes/lootas/artillery. I like to play 1850. if you need more points you can drop nobs.. as they are optional.

key advice:

1: Turn 1 isn't about shooting. go flat out, and park in your opponents face. he will panic.

2: If a battlewagon is destroyed by a meltagun, the meltagun will be in unfailable charge range next turn.

3: Individual deffkoptas will confound the enemy, snag objectives and take potshots. a whole squad will be high-priority and die quickly.

4: consider the reason something is attached to a unit. why take a megaboss with the lukky stikk? He provides an excellent save, and powerklaw attacks. putting him in a unit which already has a decent (4+) save and powerklaws is poor distribution of power. 5 powerklaw nobs with a powerklaw boss is simply 13 wounds of "Kill it now". putting the boss in a unit of boys, that's a darnsight better distribution of power. a 2+ rerollable save on a unit of 19 models, that aren't the biggest thing your opponent has to kill.

5: 'Ard boys with a painboy are an awful thing for your opponent to deal with. most AP4 weapons want to shoot trukks, but here's a unit of 20 models in a battlewagon with 4+ 5+fnp. it also drops casualties from exploding BW's from 10 or so to 2 or so.

Solar Shock wrote:

All is correct!

I'd only suggest putting a bosspole on the character in MANz missile. And a pair of saws ain't bad too.

Great advice here.

Oi! Remind your brudder:
Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!

Okay, thanks for the great replies! He does have 3 MANZ, I forgot to put them on the list!
We agreed to switch armies, with me taking temporary command of his Orks and he took my Astartes and played another 1500 point game for me to prove that Orkses can win. He took a similar list to the one I posted above, but with Tactical Terminators instead of Assault and a Drop Pod for the second Tactical Squad. I took 17 Ard Choppa Boys, with racy armour DLS Power Klaw Warboss, Painboy and KFF Big Mek in the Battlewagon, bubblewrapped the wagon with 4 Trukks, each with 10 Choppa Boyz with a power klaw Nob, 3 Kannons, 2x2 Deffkoptas with rokkits, 5 Kommandos with a power klaw Nob and 10 Gretchin with an Aegis Line and Quad-Gun. 6th Maelstrom Mission, Short Table Edge deployments, he went first. I tabled him by turn 6, with Slay the Warlord, First Blood and 5 Objectives achieved, compared to his two. Two Trukks were destroyed, two Immobilised, the Grots reduced to two men, the Ard boys reduced to two, two of the boys units was destroyed completed, another reduced to two, and the last was untouched. None of my HQs were hurt, the Cannons unscathed, the Kommandos reduced to the Nob, and the Deffkoptas (barely) destroyed. He lost everything. Result: SUCCESS!
Thank you for the tips and everything, as I have proven to him that he can win games!

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Two Trukks were destroyed, two Immobilised, the Grots reduced to two men, the Ard boys reduced to two, two of the boys units was destroyed completed, another reduced to two, the Kommandos reduced to the Nob, and the Deffkoptas (barely) destroyed. Result: SUCCESS!

That's da true ork spirit!

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
He lost everything. Result: SUCCESS!
Thank you for the tips and everything, as I have proven to him that he can win games!

Well.... errr..... you didn't quite prove he could win..... as you beat him but yeh get what your saying
Glad you guys had fun switching it up, sounded like a good long and hard battle Let us know how your brother gets on when he plays a round as the Orkzies.