Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've had a lot of trouble painting metal miniatures in general, and am looking for help with two issues:

1) Paint seems to chip off them really easily. I don't know if this is because some of them weren't sprayed first, but it seems like even putting the model down will end up chipping the paint somewhere.

2) Sprays don't seem to work properly on them. Instead of a nice, even covering of paint, they act almost like a wash - flowing into crevices and leaving the 'outer' metal shiny and uncoated.

I asked a GW manager about this, and he gave me the following advice:
- Put them in a bowl of water with some washing-up liquid and leave them to soak for about half an hour.
- Then, brush them thoroughly with an old toothbrush and rinse them.
- Leave them to dry.

So, I tried that with a bunch of West Wind miniatures I got for Christmas and... no difference whatsoever.


Can anyone help me with one or both of these issues?

1) Chipping: Do you use Satin varnish, or Matt over Gloss? or¿ If your Sprays(2) aren't sitting properly, it might be something else...

2) Sprays: The GW advice for that is reasonable, as it is just to clear off any residual chemicals that might cause the paints to not grip properly, except, I'd say use warm water and when use the brush while rinsing them off. If that didn't help, then it might be an issue with your airbrush/can-o-spray. More details? - products using and method of application / what did you clean the airbrush with? Photos?

Generally metal is very hard to get right when it comes to durability... and even in best case it is never as good as plastics.

1. Make sure the model is as clean as possible with soap watar as previously mentioned.
2. Let the model dry properly
3. Prime the model in several thin coats.
4. Let the primer cure for atleast 24 hours
5. Paint the model as wanted
6. Varnish the model with several coats of gloss varnish (much harder than mat or satin)
7. If wanted top of with a last coat of satin or matt varnish to bring down the shine.
8. Let the varnish cure atleast 24 hours before handling

Done!

Make sure the primer is actually a primer. They might seem alike but the properties are quite different.

I often have problems with metal figures as well, that is why I often stay away from metals.

When I do need to get a metal done I often use this method:

wash off the figure, spray the figure Liberally, like I spray metals with about 1.5 as much paint as plastics, I wait for the first spay to finish then I often spray again. After that take some normal paint and fill in the parts that are still metal by hand.

After this I normally don't have any more problems. though sealing the paint is must as well. Hope this helps

Thanks for the advice, guys.

With regards to varnish, I have some of that 'Ard coat GW sells - is that any good? Or, do I need something different?

Probably 95% of my figures are metal - don't tend to have much an issue with them.

The first place to start is with proper preparation. Wash the figures well to remove any residue from casting. I normally will use a degreaser like Simple Green - though dish soap works well enough too. After they have been washed - rinse them off very well to ensure any residue from the soap is removed. For this, I use alcohol - but water works well enough too.

For priming - use a metal primer. Tamiya Metal Primer was my favorite (a clear primer - which can throw some people off) - but that has since been discontinued to save polar bears and idiots who huffed the stuff. Mr. Metal Primer is even better - and ready to airbrush, but it is more difficult to get a hold of. Luckily - they don't care about polar bears, so you can still get that one. Most automotive primers work well, you can use a rattle can...decant the rattle can and spray prime...or use an airbrushable metal primer (bit harder to come by).

The reason for metal primer versus general purpose primer is that the metal primers will actually etch the metal to ensure a bond between the primer and the metal...and subsequently the paint and the primer. With regular primers, you have to rely on a complete envelope to get good adhesion - if the envelope is broken at any point, then you will have an area that will be prone to chipping.

How much to prime? Depends a bit. Honestly - with the metal primer, you don't "need" any actual primer. The etched surface will hold paint well enough. If you have to use regular primer - you will want to not see any underlying metal. The primer can't stick very well to the metal - so you need to rely on the primer sticking to itself and fully enclosing the metal.

After that - let the primer fully cure (overnight in most cases) and then paint as normal...

...Unless you are using a non-metal primer, in which case - it is tricky. Best adhesion is generally achieved with water based and related finishes for the second and subsequent coat just after it becomes dry to the touch. Any time this chain of layer on layer is broken (like by work or sleep) the next layer you apply will not bind as well as previous ones.

Although you don't see it too often on hobby paints (to be honest - you normally don't see word one from the manufacturers of hobby paints regarding any technical information) - if you look at the back of a can of regular paint...it normally says something like "May be recoated after 2 hours or after 24 hours with sanding." The same general principle applies to our little bottles of paint (lacquers and enamels excluded...they have different properties).

What happens is when the water evaporates from the acrylic, the polymers settle down and start to get all twisted up in knots. If you apply the next coat while they are still twisting up, the new layer of paint can get in between the space left in the old layer. If you wait too long though - all the polymer molecules will have bound up as tight as they can and there won't be anything for the next layer to stick to. Light sanding creates some texture for it to grab onto though. In some respects, flat paints also provide a bit of tooth too - the tiny chunks of matting agent sticking up above the film like sand paper.

Bit of a pain, especially since most of us don't have time to spend 8-10 hours a day painting figures from start to finish to maintain the layer on layer principle without a break. We also don't want to sand down a miniature with some 1200 grit sand paper before we start up again the next day... In most cases, I would say don't worry about it. Provided that you finish the model with a clear coat to hold everything in - it will almost be as strong once done. During the painting process you will need to be careful not to chip anything (fingers off the figure and all that - though that is good practice in general).

If you do have a situation where you need/want a bit more strength, before you start back up with the next layer - give the whole figure a spray of clear acrylic. This will create an envelope and allow you to restart the layer on layer clock from that point.

Bit off the subject, but it came to mind... Watch out for priming models ahead of time and then coming back a few weeks (to months later). The nature of primer makes it very well suited for holding particles from the air as well. Over time, all that junk will fill in the tooth that the primer creates and provide less for paint to grab onto. There are also various oils and other things just floating about in the air that will decrease paint adhesion (everything from stir fry to the smell of roses...).

Sean's advice is solid, but I think patience is the problem, not products or techniques.

1. Wash your metal minis after prep. Extrememly important. I almost never wash plastics, but I never skip this step with metal.
2. Prime your metal minis. I've used expensive, hobby brand primer and cheap black spray paint. I can't tell a difference, but YMMV.
3. Allow the primer to cure and outgas. Don't try and put paint down over primer that's just dry to the touch. Prime it and walk away for at least 24 hours.
4. Seal your minis. No, really, put some sealer on them. Seal them twice. Seal them until they bark and beg for fish from the tourists down at the pier. For the love of all that's holy, seal your friggin' miniatures.

You have to do these things, and it takes a bit of patience. Unless you're willing to set-up fans and heatlamps to speed up drying and curing, the process of prepping, assembling, cleaning, and priming may take days. Then painting and sealing will take days more. This is not an instant gratification hobby.

I have a lot of painted metal minis. I game with them a lot. I do not treat them well. I pick them up by the handful. They do not look like rubbish. They do not chip at the slightest glance. In fact, I don't remember the last time I had to touch one up because a chip jumped out at me while I was playing.

the_Armyman pretty much said it all, I think.

Especially the part about allowing your primer to cure. I usually give my primer at least 3 days to cure before paint hits them.

I treat my metal miniatures pretty roughly, too -- I have hundreds of infantry-sized metal models -- and they are no less durable than plastic ones, but they do take a decent amount more prep. Really, the biggest problem with metal minis is that small parts that are glued (but not pinned) tend to fall off with only moderate force applied.