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Hey Everyone,
I'm hoping some folks here can help me determine what would be a fair "trade" value for the following army.
I'm trading MY MTG for this persons ORK's.
MTG is pretty easy to determine as there are multiple 3rd party sites that you can use to gauge value. For 40k though, there is only GW or Ebay. For NIB, I'm leaning towards GW's full price, but for painted stuff, I'm generally referencing Ebay.
I know I've posted questions like this before, but I didn't get many responses when I posted the army.

I basically just want to know if the values for the army below seem pretty fair, or too high? too low? (pics below)


Trade 1

Lot #1
7th Ed. Codex 40
1 Warboss on Bike konversion 15
Ghazghull Thraka 20
Grukk FaceRippa 20
50 Boyz (20 with Shootas) (Pnt) 50
10 Bikers (pnt) 75
15 Stormboyz OOP Metal (pnt) 28
3 Killa Kanz (Stormclaw) NOS 30
20 Nobz (5 NOS) 30
6 Deffkoptas (asm, some pnt) 30
1 Trukk (bare) 30
1 BattleWagon (pnt w. Deffrolla) 50
10 Gretchen (StormClaw) 10

Lot #2 (still incoming)
5 Deffkoptas 30
5 Lootas (NIB) 22
Deffdread (NIB) 50
Trukk (NIB) 30
20 Boyz (NIB) 30
20 boyz (condition?) 20
5 Nobz 5
Warboss (AOBR? StormClaw?) 10
625
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trade 2.
How much for the following NOS Lizardmen (from Battlebox?)
20x Saurus Warriors with bits for full command and either spears or hand-weapon/shield
4x Saurus Cavalry (one saddle piece is off sprue and glued together) with bits for full command


Here are some pics for the Ork army..

DeffKopta w. converted blade


Painted BW


Warboss on Bike


Warbikes


Nobz?


StormBoyz


Shoota Boyz



Boyz from Lot #2


Boyz/Deffkoptas and Lootas? NIB?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any thoughts on the value of this army for trading? Please lmk!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any thoughts on this?

Understand that trade value for used goods (heck, even NIB) particularly models is extremely subjective.


I"ve traded on bartertown for 7 years.


When trading NIB / NOS models for used (assembled, painted / primed), i typically value the used models at 50% off MSRP, whereas the NIB/NOS models are valued at 20% OFF MSRP. Reasons are that the used models will require work (i always strip and repaint used models i get), and even if not, i'm not getting bits, and i'm taking an investment risk that the models are assembled correctly and up to my standards and require no repair, etc. It's a gamble.

Also why NIB / NOS at 20% off ? Cuz i can get 20-25% off NIB stuff. Free markets are a bitch. THat said, the pendulum swings both ways, and i value my gak this way too.


If i REALLY want something, i might flux 10% up. If i really want something and its super duper hard to find, i might flux up to another 10%, but this is really rare. It really has to be worth my while to throw down the extra cash rather than spend the time hunting down another copy.



However this is just me, and again, its super subjective. But i've had really good luck and a great trackrecord with batertown over the years, so its a rough formula that has worked for me.

The above would be how i'd treat the lizards, trading for MTG cards is kinda hard though, as its cross-platform valuation. Yes easy to establish, but at the same time, you're not trading a like good for like good (models) so the trader might object to 50% valuation on his models.

I'll be honest, in 7 years of trading, i've done like 3 trades out of over 140 for cross-platform items, and hashing and haggling out respective valuation for used items (models that were assembled with no left over bits that i had to do work to prep them for how i want them) vs. items that lost no value by being used (video games) was probably the hardest part of those trades.


Your best off going with your gut, finding out where you want to end up with what you think is fair, offering initially a bit more (emphasis on bit!) of a deal that would be better for you than your sweet spot, and seeing if they counter, accept or say "nah thanks".

If they counter, you will figure a deal out, i almost guarantee it, as you'll both probably be able to find some common ground. If they accept then your valuations were roughly in line. If you get a "nah thanks", then one or the other of your valuations are wildly off target in comparison to the other (i.e. you offer 50-60% of MSRP, and his reasponse is "Nah, no thanks", then you can infer that he thinks used models are worth 100% of MSRP. In which case, find a new trade partner, LOL).

-- Haight

I think the value of used really depends on who is buying them. If you like the paintjob then somebody just saved you a ton of time. Also, buying GW paints at $3+ per pot adds up QUICK so painted models are often worth more just on materials you have been saved from buying / expending!

Of course, if they are not painted to your standard or if you are going to repaint them, well, maybe they are worth less. If you have to strip them that costs you time and materials. If they just have primer, well, again, someone might have just saved you some time and materials. Likewise, touching up someone else's paint job may save time over doing the whole thing over again from scratch.

So I think this kind of thing really depends. In my mind, models are worth a decent price if they are painted to a playable standard. But if you are going to have to strip and re-paint them, well, the value of these models is up to you.

The models shown here, of those finished, look pretty decent to me and table-ready. Maybe not master-class, but still something I'd be proud to field.

I agree with most everything mentioned above. When it comes down to used and painted items I value them at 50% less retail. When some one is interested in my nib still in shrink I value those nib items at GW full retail when trading for used items. I try and avoid trading for things that are painted or "custom" builds. Oop models can be pretty hard to move when they have a current updated model. The ork boys from AOBR can also be pretty hard to move since you can buy them on eBay for dirt cheap.

 Haight wrote:
Understand that trade value for used goods (heck, even NIB) particularly models is extremely subjective.


I"ve traded on bartertown for 7 years.


When trading NIB / NOS models for used (assembled, painted / primed), i typically value the used models at 50% off MSRP, whereas the NIB/NOS models are valued at 20% OFF MSRP. Reasons are that the used models will require work (i always strip and repaint used models i get), and even if not, i'm not getting bits, and i'm taking an investment risk that the models are assembled correctly and up to my standards and require no repair, etc. It's a gamble.

Also why NIB / NOS at 20% off ? Cuz i can get 20-25% off NIB stuff. Free markets are a bitch. THat said, the pendulum swings both ways, and i value my gak this way too.


If i REALLY want something, i might flux 10% up. If i really want something and its super duper hard to find, i might flux up to another 10%, but this is really rare. It really has to be worth my while to throw down the extra cash rather than spend the time hunting down another copy.



However this is just me, and again, its super subjective. But i've had really good luck and a great trackrecord with batertown over the years, so its a rough formula that has worked for me.

The above would be how i'd treat the lizards, trading for MTG cards is kinda hard though, as its cross-platform valuation. Yes easy to establish, but at the same time, you're not trading a like good for like good (models) so the trader might object to 50% valuation on his models.

I'll be honest, in 7 years of trading, i've done like 3 trades out of over 140 for cross-platform items, and hashing and haggling out respective valuation for used items (models that were assembled with no left over bits that i had to do work to prep them for how i want them) vs. items that lost no value by being used (video games) was probably the hardest part of those trades.


Your best off going with your gut, finding out where you want to end up with what you think is fair, offering initially a bit more (emphasis on bit!) of a deal that would be better for you than your sweet spot, and seeing if they counter, accept or say "nah thanks".

If they counter, you will figure a deal out, i almost guarantee it, as you'll both probably be able to find some common ground. If they accept then your valuations were roughly in line. If you get a "nah thanks", then one or the other of your valuations are wildly off target in comparison to the other (i.e. you offer 50-60% of MSRP, and his reasponse is "Nah, no thanks", then you can infer that he thinks used models are worth 100% of MSRP. In which case, find a new trade partner, LOL).

-- Haight

Thanks everyone! I appreciate your advice.

So, I've seen a lot of discussions about x% off retail, which is a great place to start. But sometimes "retail" is hard to discern, especially for older models (like the OOP Stormboyz) and AOBR/Stormclaw stuff.

With that in mind, I just want to see if you guys think I've done a pretty good job at evaluating the values of the aforementioned items, even though I know it's largely subjective. I feel I've done a pretty good job, but I want to make sure I'm not giving up too much, or giving him the short end of the stick.
Also, it should be noted that I'm also "thinning" out some of my bulk. Basically, this guy is new to MTG and I'm giving him a lot of cards that are basically worth nothing and sell for pennies @ online retailers. I'm valuing them at a dime each, and it's helping me clear up some space.

Do you really need yet another thread asking about this trade? You already got good advice in your previous thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/627406.page

And just to stay on-topic I'll repeat what I said there: the models are painted to a very low standard, but don't appear to be damaged. The upper limit on price is probably the ~50% of retail multiple people have mentioned for used models, the lower limit is as low as you want it to be (for example, I might offer $5 for the whole lot if I was in a really generous mood). And that's as much of an estimate as you're going to get for something where the value depends entirely on personal preferences about painted models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SheSpits wrote:
When some one is interested in my nib still in shrink I value those nib items at GW full retail when trading for used items.

That's very optimistic when NIB models sell for 80-90% of retail price from stores, depending on exactly where you get them and how much shipping costs.

Darkzephyr wrote:

 Haight wrote:
Understand that trade value for used goods (heck, even NIB) particularly models is extremely subjective.


I"ve traded on bartertown for 7 years.


When trading NIB / NOS models for used (assembled, painted / primed), i typically value the used models at 50% off MSRP, whereas the NIB/NOS models are valued at 20% OFF MSRP. Reasons are that the used models will require work (i always strip and repaint used models i get), and even if not, i'm not getting bits, and i'm taking an investment risk that the models are assembled correctly and up to my standards and require no repair, etc. It's a gamble.

Also why NIB / NOS at 20% off ? Cuz i can get 20-25% off NIB stuff. Free markets are a bitch. THat said, the pendulum swings both ways, and i value my gak this way too.


If i REALLY want something, i might flux 10% up. If i really want something and its super duper hard to find, i might flux up to another 10%, but this is really rare. It really has to be worth my while to throw down the extra cash rather than spend the time hunting down another copy.



However this is just me, and again, its super subjective. But i've had really good luck and a great trackrecord with batertown over the years, so its a rough formula that has worked for me.

The above would be how i'd treat the lizards, trading for MTG cards is kinda hard though, as its cross-platform valuation. Yes easy to establish, but at the same time, you're not trading a like good for like good (models) so the trader might object to 50% valuation on his models.

I'll be honest, in 7 years of trading, i've done like 3 trades out of over 140 for cross-platform items, and hashing and haggling out respective valuation for used items (models that were assembled with no left over bits that i had to do work to prep them for how i want them) vs. items that lost no value by being used (video games) was probably the hardest part of those trades.


Your best off going with your gut, finding out where you want to end up with what you think is fair, offering initially a bit more (emphasis on bit!) of a deal that would be better for you than your sweet spot, and seeing if they counter, accept or say "nah thanks".

If they counter, you will figure a deal out, i almost guarantee it, as you'll both probably be able to find some common ground. If they accept then your valuations were roughly in line. If you get a "nah thanks", then one or the other of your valuations are wildly off target in comparison to the other (i.e. you offer 50-60% of MSRP, and his reasponse is "Nah, no thanks", then you can infer that he thinks used models are worth 100% of MSRP. In which case, find a new trade partner, LOL).

-- Haight

Thanks everyone! I appreciate your advice.

So, I've seen a lot of discussions about x% off retail, which is a great place to start. But sometimes "retail" is hard to discern, especially for older models (like the OOP Stormboyz) and AOBR/Stormclaw stuff.

With that in mind, I just want to see if you guys think I've done a pretty good job at evaluating the values of the aforementioned items, even though I know it's largely subjective. I feel I've done a pretty good job, but I want to make sure I'm not giving up too much, or giving him the short end of the stick.
Also, it should be noted that I'm also "thinning" out some of my bulk. Basically, this guy is new to MTG and I'm giving him a lot of cards that are basically worth nothing and sell for pennies @ online retailers. I'm valuing them at a dime each, and it's helping me clear up some space.

Unless these cards you are valuing at 10 cents are rares, you are severely over valuing your MTG cards. When I played MTG I sold thousands of (I mean probably 20,000+) bulk rares at 15 cents each. Where as the going rate for bulk commons and uncommons were about $8-$10 per 1000.I sold over 250,000+ magic cards when I quit the hobby, and still pick up lots for resale once in a while. So if you are just giving non-rare bulk, 10 cents a card if high way robbery, as in severely unfair for the person you are trading.

That being said there is the other side of the coin, if you are giving actually valuable rares ($5+) you need to realize MTG resells for a lot higher % of cost then 40k does. So if you bought the Jace, The Mindsculptor for $60 lets say, even if you want to sell it quick you should be able to recoup atleast 80% of the cost. Where as if i buy a box of Orc boys, build them and paint them up, you are lucky to get 40% of my money back.

So in the end this is what I would do and have done. Value your cards at 100% of SCG or TCGPlayers (Med) value, and value their 40k at 50%-85% depending on the condition, if they are OOP and/or the price is not available go for the average eBay price. But this is only useful when trading MTG cards with actual value. If you are just trading bulk commons/uncommons they are valued at $10 per $1000, and bulk rares/foils are on the high end 25 cents each. So if you have 3,000 commons/uncommons and 100 bulk rares that value comes up to $55 which can then be converted into $65-$140 of warhammer depending on condition.

But once again as stated above it is up to the trade, I am just giving my input as I have done these types of trading a lot, and dealt with both systems extensively.

 Peregrine wrote:

 SheSpits wrote:
When some one is interested in my nib still in shrink I value those nib items at GW full retail when trading for used items.

That's very optimistic when NIB models sell for 80-90% of retail price from stores, depending on exactly where you get them and how much shipping costs.

FWIW, i 100% agree with this. It's a sad fact of the trading economics that even NIB models are not worth 100% MSRP. They just are not.

Because if i have 50 bucks, and i trade with someone for cash and they want 100% MSRP + shipping, i'm actually getting ripped off. If they want 90% + shipping, i'm probably breaking even as if i walked into my local store and bought it from them. If they are offering 80%, now there's a little bit of incentive.

This scales obviously, which is why i use the 50.00 example. People may not like that, but unfortunately trade partners need to be logical ; just because it's "your" model doesn't magically mean i should want that set of darkshards for 35 + shipping more than i should want the ones i can get for 28.00 shipped assuming equal condition (NIB). This is why for small lots i like to do "trades", and i like to buy in bigger lots, personally.

Using cash isn't trading. That's buying.

 pretre wrote:
Using cash isn't trading. That's buying.

Eh, it's still trading. You're giving currency for an item. Different verb, same net action. I relinquish my ownership and control of something to someone in exchange for them relinquishing their ownership and control of something to me. It's just that in a "sale", one side is using paper with dead presidents on it instead of an item.

I know this whole topic has produced heated discussions in other places, and probably could be a thread all its own.

 Haight wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Using cash isn't trading. That's buying.

Eh, it's still trading. You're giving currency for an item. Different verb, same net action. I relinquish my ownership and control of something to someone in exchange for them relinquishing their ownership and control of something to me. It's just that in a "sale", one side is using paper with dead presidents on it instead of an item.

I know this whole topic has produced heated discussions in other places, and probably could be a thread all its own.

The point of my post is that NIB items have much different trade values than they do sale values. I generally SELL NIB for about 60% of retail. I TRADE NIB for about 90-100% of retail.