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HQ
Azrael (215 Pts) FgGren, KrGren, Protector, Lion's Wrath, Sword Of Secrets, Lion Helm, Bolt Pistol
Command Squad (185 Pts)
- Veterans (5): FgGren, KrGren, Bolter(5), Bolt Pistol(5), Melta Bomb(4), Standard Of Devastation
Troops
Deathwing Terminator Squad (245 Pts)
- Deathwing Terminator (4): Power Fist And Storm Bolter(3), Chain Fist And Storm Bolter, Assault Cannon
- Sergeant (1): Power Weapon, Storm bolter
Tactical squad (185 Pts)
- Space Marine (9): FgGren, KrGren, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Cannon, Plasma gun
- Sergeant (1): FgGren, KrGren, Bolter, Chainsword, Melta Bomb, Veteran
Tactical squad (190 Pts)
- Space Marine (9): FgGren, KrGren, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Missile launcher, Melta gun
- Sergeant (1): FgGren, KrGren, Combi-plasma, Power Weapon, Melta Bomb, Veteran
Elites
Deathwing Knights (245 Pts)
- Deathwing Khight (4): Mace Of Absolution, Storm Shield, Perfidious Relic Of Unforgiven
- Knight Master (1): Flail Of Unforgiven, Storm Shield
Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (175 Pts)
- Space Marine (4): FgGren, KrGren, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Lascannon(2), Multi-melta, Plasma Cannon
- Space Marine Sergeant (1): FgGren, KrGren, Power Fist, Combi-melta, Melta Bomb

I have no idea what my friend is going to be fielding. Should I deathwing assault with all of my termies? Or should I just do that with the ones who will actually benefit from it, the regular termies, and just deep strike the knights when my bikers get close?

If he a CSM player, then I would guess that he would take one or two heldrakes in his army, as they are good, tough, flyers. From this list, I can't see much, or any, anti-air guns. So having a few of those would help.

some optimizations worth thinking about:

1) your currently using only 2 elite slots, bringing azreal is virtually pointless, the idea behind taking azreal/belial/sammy is as a tax to make things troops choices (and in azreals case to guarantee a warlord trait ) if your not going to use them in that capacity it really isnt all that practical to take them, a company master with the right loadout can do many things azreal cant (like maybe actually win a challenge against another HQ choice/warlord).

2) deepstriking deathwing knights are a bad idea, their asking to get shot at. now granted your opponent is csm so he cant access pieplates as willy nilly as some other armies but their still an inviting target for plasma guns and meltas to shave off a body or two and that will wear them down if left unchecked. if you do deepstrike them never do it in a place where their isolated, asking for nightmares

3) never use the "pts" abbreviation on anything forum mods dislike it when you do that on a lot of forums

4) a MM devestator is a tad silly, a HB would be better, our scrounge up 5 points somewhere to give him a pc or ml

5) no field armor, CSM have terrible..TERRIBLE answers to tanks relying mainly on missles and autocannons as their anti-tank which wont do much against dreadnaughts, predators, and land raiders, if you field even one barebones predator or a dreadnaught hes going to have problems

6) veteran tactical marine sargeants this one is a very flat practical explanation: veterans are good at one thing: close combat. the only units i ever recommend buying vet sgt's for are assault marine, pistol & sword scouts (because +1 leadership), and ravenwing attack squadrons. their built around melee combat to begin with and their the most likely to see melee combat, if your tacticals see melee something has gone horribly wrong, or horribly right. there is rarely any middle ground

8)
devestators: drop the melta gun and m bombs
cmd squad: drop the m bombs

the day either of these units use those weapons will be the day cows jump over the moon

in fact if you dropped the sargeants, the m bombs and the combi melta your saving yourself 50 points right there find 5 more and you can get a razorback, find 15 more and you can get a whirlwind!, find 25 points! and you can get that predator, or a razorback with a different heavy weapon, the possibilities are endless!!

Don't underestimate CSM, you say that their anti-tank is terrible, even though he could take Obliterators, Havocs, las predator, and others for effective use.

Decay wrote:
Don't underestimate CSM, you say that their anti-tank is terrible, even though he could take Obliterators, Havocs, las predator, and others for effective use.

oblits however take up a slot that is in heavy demand by chaos marines so they are sort of stuck on what to choose, im aware they have AT options but they can be aquired in greater numbers by normal marines thanks to things like plasma cannons, and grav (when discussing normal marines anyway). and its true he could field vehicles with lascannons but hes going to spend a lot of points for many of those options (hellbrute, defiler) or having to settle for something inferior (land raiders should not be carrying lascannons unless their forgeworld). so the fact remains that chaos marines cant out tank/anti-tank standard marines, and yes that goes for dark angels too.

Yeah, all good points, still going to play chaos though... Anyway back to the topic on hand, you should watch out for the possibility of him summoning daemons to help him, I'm not sure on how you can cure that one though.

Csm players love to spend all their points on hel drakes.

 Filch wrote:
Csm players love to spend all their points on hel drakes.

except we has contempor and if he drake spammed he could easily just mortis spam. given the choice of fighting drakes or kheres AC's id pick the drakes simply cause no 12 TL assault cannon dice

The real issue I see is that you really should be mixing your DW units equipment.

Here is some ways I have run them:

DW (5) - sgt, assault cannon, chain fist, 2x th/ss 260
or you could drop 1 th/ss for a pair of claws.

I also like to take the cyclone on a guy with a th/ss as well.

Azrael
I like Azrael a lot, but your aren't making the most of him. You don't need Veteran Sergeants when you take him. All DA models test on his leadership anyway. What warlord trait are you planning on?

Command Squad
These guys are going to draw a lot of fire. The Apothecary is a must. Swap Bolt pistols for Bolters. You are carrying the banner after all. You really don't want these guys in CC anyway. If you give up the pistols and the extra attack, then consider Storm Shields unless Azrael is going to be hanging out and giving them all 4++ anyway. These guys need ride, don't make your vets walk.

Deathwing Terminator Squad
The Plasma Cannon is a easy conversion on the DV Assault Cannon Termie. The PC makes better use of Terminators being relentless.

Tactical squad
A drop pod or Rhino increase your odds of getting where you are going considerably. Also, one of the benefits of taking Azrael is not having to take 2 tactical squads as troops. I can see taking one to hang with Azzie (getting a 4++ in the process), depending on what you do with the Vets, but 2 squads are just going to be Heldrake food.

Deathwing Knights
Solid.

Devastator Squad
No. Take Ravenwing Black Knights or a couple of Typhoon Speeders. Your list lacks mobility. Devastators are too immobile and your weapons loadout is too varied, imo. The Ravenwing Knights give you a fast mobile hammer unit with a bunch of Plasma shots. 2 Typhoon Speeders give you 4 Missile Shots. You can keep them out of range of the small arms that can shred them or Deep Strike them to get those missiles hitting rear armor.

Thanks for the advice! I am still working on building my army, and I did just get some magnets. Here are all of the units I have/am in the process of building.

DV Termies
5 DW Knights
Azrael (he is my only HQ atm but I am working on getting more)
20 Tacs, 2 sarges, one with bolter/chainsword, other with combi-plasma/power sword, 1 melta, 1 ML, 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Plasma Cannon
Devastators (putting together with all of my other christmas goodies)
Vanilla Terminator sprue (unassembled, will magnetize)
DV Bikers
5 Veterans with Bolters

I also have an allied force composed of Karlaen, 5 DC, and Cassor the Damned.

I don't know if my friend has a Heldrake, but I know he has a Forgefiend.

He has everything from DV, a Termie Lord, Kharn, Berserkers, Plague Marines, Chaos spawn, CSM, and a lot of other nasty heretics.

I checked and he does not have a heldrake or any flyers.

I'm going to drop one of my tac squads and use another shooty terminator squad, and in the tac squad I'll have a plasma gun and heavy bolter, and a 10 man devastator squad with 2 lascannons, a missile launcher, and a plasma cannon, Keeping Azrael with the Dakkabanner Command Squad and I'm going to say that one of them is an apothecary even though I don't have the model yet.

I'm considering swapping out a few units and using Blood Angels allies instead, Karlaen with Cassor and Raphen's Death Company.

Should I put a Heavy Flamer, Plasma Cannon, another Assault Cannon, or a CML on the second DW termie squad?