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Can you use a Nova power If the model jinks? I.e. A flying Hive tyrant jinks. can it cast psychic scream?

“Witchfire
Witchfire powers are shooting attacks. Indeed, they are often referred to as psychic shooting attacks, and many have profiles similar to ranged weapons. Just like when shooting a weapon, a Psyker must be able to see the target unit (or target point) and cannot be locked in combat if he wishes to manifest a witchfire power. Similarly, a witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described in the Blast special rule, or it is a Template weapon, which hit automatically. Psykers can make Snap Shots in the Psychic phase with witchfire powers in the same way as with other shooting weapons.”

excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

“Nova
A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures) within the psychic power’s maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain and so on. Otherwise, a nova is treated like a shooting attack, and indeed will have a profile like a ranged weapon. Only one unit that is within the power’s maximum range can attempt to Deny the Witch.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.


Thanks all- appreciate your feedback / views.

When you you jink you snap fire, and when you snap fire you can't shoot anything that doesn't roll to hit. Novas don't roll to hit.

Yeh... Did a little more digging.

Snap fire rule below for conpleteness confirming this - incase anyone else wanted this clarified.

Snap Fire
“Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnance, or those that have certain special rules, such as Blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot. These exceptions aside, Snap Shots are treated in the same manner as any other shooting attack made with a Ballistic Skill of 1.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

 CrownAxe wrote:
When you you jink you snap fire, and when you snap fire you can't shoot anything that doesn't roll to hit. Novas don't roll to hit.

Incorrect, if that were true, novas couldnt hit zooming flyers or swooping FMC which require snap shots to hit, but they can as stated per their rules.

Automatically hits, automatically hits.

What can Jink and cast psychic powers though? Psyker in an open top skimmer?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
When you you jink you snap fire, and when you snap fire you can't shoot anything that doesn't roll to hit. Novas don't roll to hit.

Incorrect, if that were true, novas couldnt hit zooming flyers or swooping FMC which require snap shots to hit, but they can as stated per their rules.

Automatically hits, automatically hits.

What can Jink and cast psychic powers though? Psyker in an open top skimmer?

This is different. Novas don't inherently target so aren't snap firing as a result of Hard to Hit (as they weren't targeting a flyer). The permission to hit a flyer is there much in the same way a blast shot at a ground unit that scattered on to a flyer would need that permission to hit the flyer.

However when you jink you make all of your shooting snap fires which does affect Novas and Novas don't have specific permission to be cast despite the snap fire rule.

Flyimg Mostrous Creatures can jink and there a plenty that can cast.

If they have permission to hit targets that normaly require snap shots to be hit, then they should still be able to Nova after they Jink. They target and automatically hit regardless of all the reasons listed in the Nova profile above

The permission to fire them is in the nova rule itself via "Automatically targets and hits all enemy units etc"

Other than everything else, a nova is a shooting attack. But that everything else makes it break normal shooting attack rules.

It being the more specific ruleset takes precedence

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
If they have permission to hit targets that normaly require snap shots to be hit, then they should still be able to Nova after they Jink. They target and automatically hit regardless of all the reasons listed in the Nova profile above

The permission to fire them is in the nova rule itself via "Automatically targets and hits all enemy units etc"

Other than everything else, a nova is a shooting attack. But that everything else makes it break normal shooting attack rules.

It being the more specific ruleset takes precedence

Where is the part in the RB that states that Nova is a more specific rule than snap shooting?

“In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot.”

That sentence there certifies (for me) that Nova powers cannot be fired if the model jinks.

 Wilson wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
If they have permission to hit targets that normaly require snap shots to be hit, then they should still be able to Nova after they Jink. They target and automatically hit regardless of all the reasons listed in the Nova profile above

The permission to fire them is in the nova rule itself via "Automatically targets and hits all enemy units etc"

Other than everything else, a nova is a shooting attack. But that everything else makes it break normal shooting attack rules.

It being the more specific ruleset takes precedence

Where is the part in the RB that states that Nova is a more specific rule than snap shooting?

“In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot.”

That sentence there certifies (for me) that Nova powers cannot be fired if the model jinks.

Again, if that were true, then it couldnt be used against Zooming Flyers or Swooping FMC, as they can only be hit by snap shots; but it clearly can be

Its "can not be fired as Snap Shot" but can hit models that can 'only be fired at by Snap Shots'?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
If they have permission to hit targets that normaly require snap shots to be hit, then they should still be able to Nova after they Jink. They target and automatically hit regardless of all the reasons listed in the Nova profile above

The permission to fire them is in the nova rule itself via "Automatically targets and hits all enemy units etc"

Other than everything else, a nova is a shooting attack. But that everything else makes it break normal shooting attack rules.

It being the more specific ruleset takes precedence

Where is the part in the RB that states that Nova is a more specific rule than snap shooting?

“In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot.”

That sentence there certifies (for me) that Nova powers cannot be fired if the model jinks.

Again, if that were true, then it couldnt be used against Zooming Flyers or Swooping FMC, as they can only be hit by snap shots; but it clearly can be

Its "can not be fired as Snap Shot" but can hit models that can 'only be fired at by Snap Shots'?

Nova's can hit flyers and FMC because the nova rule states that.

Snap firing overrides that rule when the unit jinks.

does auto hit mean he does not use BS or use BS but whatever the result it is a hit.

In case 1: snap firing overrides it. didn't fire
in case 2: it snap fire at bs 1 but whatever the roll is a hit. did fire.

tyllon wrote:
does auto hit mean he does not use BS or use BS but whatever the result it is a hit.

In case 1: snap firing overrides it. didn't fire
in case 2: it snap fire at bs 1 but whatever the roll is a hit. did fire.

It does not use a BS to hit and is therefore affected by snap shot rule....

Wrenthefaceless is arguing for case 2. GW been using Automatically hit as not using BS but nothing stat that. just be mindful cause case 2 logically a better argument

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Again, if that were true, then it couldnt be used against Zooming Flyers or Swooping FMC, as they can only be hit by snap shots; but it clearly can be

Its "can not be fired as Snap Shot" but can hit models that can 'only be fired at by Snap Shots'?

When you use a nova, you never actually "shoot" at a flyer. The reason that a nova firing at a flyer isn't considered a snap fire is that you aren't shooting at the flyer.... you're shooting at anything that's within range, whether it be flyer, infantry, etc. You could target infantry next to you, and by pure coincidence the flyer next to them will also be hit, as implied by the "nova hits all enemy units (including flyers)" rule.

However, this means that a nova doesn't roll to hit, ever. Since it doesn't roll to hit, it can't be snap fired.

 Wilson wrote:

tyllon wrote:
does auto hit mean he does not use BS or use BS but whatever the result it is a hit.

In case 1: snap firing overrides it. didn't fire
in case 2: it snap fire at bs 1 but whatever the roll is a hit. did fire.

It does not use a BS to hit and is therefore affected by snap shot rule....

A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures) within the psychic power’s maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain and so on

How does the Snap Shot rule prevent this? It already doesnt follow the normal rules for a Shooting Attack.

 kingbobbito wrote:

When you use a nova, you never actually "shoot" at a flyer. The reason that a nova firing at a flyer isn't considered a snap fire is that you aren't shooting at the flyer.... you're shooting at anything that's within range, whether it be flyer, infantry, etc. You could target infantry next to you, and by pure coincidence the flyer next to them will also be hit, as implied by the "nova hits all enemy units (including flyers)" rule.

However, this means that a nova doesn't roll to hit, ever. Since it doesn't roll to hit, it can't be snap fired.

Incorrect, the nova targets everything in range. Its targeting the flyer and shooting at it.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

tyllon wrote:
does auto hit mean he does not use BS or use BS but whatever the result it is a hit.

In case 1: snap firing overrides it. didn't fire
in case 2: it snap fire at bs 1 but whatever the roll is a hit. did fire.

It does not use a BS to hit and is therefore affected by snap shot rule....

A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures) within the psychic power’s maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain and so on

How does the Snap Shot rule prevent this? It already doesnt follow the normal rules for a Shooting Attack.

 kingbobbito wrote:

When you use a nova, you never actually "shoot" at a flyer. The reason that a nova firing at a flyer isn't considered a snap fire is that you aren't shooting at the flyer.... you're shooting at anything that's within range, whether it be flyer, infantry, etc. You could target infantry next to you, and by pure coincidence the flyer next to them will also be hit, as implied by the "nova hits all enemy units (including flyers)" rule.

However, this means that a nova doesn't roll to hit, ever. Since it doesn't roll to hit, it can't be snap fired.

Incorrect, the nova targets everything in range. Its targeting the flyer and shooting at it.

Really? You're going to make me quote it again? Lol

" In Addition, Any Shooting Attack That Does Not Use Ballistic Skill Cannot Be ‘Fired’ As A Snap Shot. These Exceptions Aside, Snap Shots Are Treated In The Same Manner As Any Other Shooting Attack Made With A Ballistic Skill Of 1.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” Ibooks.
This Material May Be Protected By Copyright.

The only reason a Nova can hit a Flyer is because it's rule says it can. Otherwise it couldn't.
This is not a blanket permission to ignore all instances where a Snap Shot is required.

 Wilson wrote:



Really? You're going to make me quote it again? Lol

" In Addition, Any Shooting Attack That Does Not Use Ballistic Skill Cannot Be ‘Fired’ As A Snap Shot. These Exceptions Aside, Snap Shots Are Treated In The Same Manner As Any Other Shooting Attack Made With A Ballistic Skill Of 1.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” Ibooks.
This Material May Be Protected By Copyright.

Couple this with the part of Nova that was left out of the quote WrentheFaceless posted: "Otherwise, a Nova is treated as a SHOOTING ATTACK, and indeed will have a profile like a ranged weapon."

And, clearly, Nova powers can not be used after jinking.