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Just started Blood Angels and i'm trying to think of a cost effective way of dealing with an imperial knight or something similar at around 1000pts.

10 Sternguard all with combi-meltas in a pod was my first thought, combat squading to different sides after deepstriking. That should get you a dead knight but it costs almost as much as a knight.

Assault Squads in pods were my second thought. 5 with 2 Meltas, a combi and a pod comes in at just over 100 points but i didn't know if 3 melta shots would do it.

Now i've started thinking about putting a load of melta pistols in a pod, this would be more expensive and i'm not sure they'd be viable with 6" range and 3" melta range though.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks

Knights are AV 13 with how many HPs, again?

6HP, with a directional single-facing 4++, positioned before shots are taken at it

How many can they get at 1000 pts?

2, with 250 points spare. Most likely for cheap ObSec

This is not a good match up at all I think. I would start with a tri-las pred to keep their shields facing forward and then try to flank them. Maybe try to get a couple of DC power fists into HTH.

With an I4 D-weapon?

I wouldn't count CC as a valid option, unless from Mephiston. Even then, with his WS/I7 & 5 S10 Attacks, he either wins or goes squish

It also depends on which variant of Knight in question.

Errants will make mincemeat out of anything armoured, with a S9AP1 Melta attack, and Paladins will laugh at any unit left to footslog: dropping two battle cannon shells & 6 Heavy Stubber rounds into whoever it feels like, splitting targets if desired.

Your greatest weapon against them is a Stormraven, simply because they cant even target it, and it has the speed to appear on a flank. it can even engage both at once should two appear.

 IHateNids wrote:
With an I4 D-weapon?

I wouldn't count CC as a valid option, unless from Mephiston. Even then, with his WS/I7 & 5 S10 Attacks, he either wins or goes squish

It also depends on which variant of Knight in question.

Errants will make mincemeat out of anything armoured, with a S9AP1 Melta attack, and Paladins will laugh at any unit left to footslog: dropping two battle cannon shells & 6 Heavy Stubber rounds into whoever it feels like, splitting targets if desired.

Your greatest weapon against them is a Stormraven, simply because they cant even target it, and it has the speed to appear on a flank. it can even engage both at once should two appear.

It's a race. The I4 D-weapon can't pick out the DC with the powerfists. Can they?

If declared as Warlord, the Knight becomes a character, yes.

But no matter who gets eviscerated by the reaper, the Stomp attacks occur while the DC swing, so there's a good chance they're dead anyway.

If the BA get charged, rather then charge the knight, it swings even more away from them, factoring in the D6 S10 HoW attacks

Honestly, I think you would be best served playing the objective, hiding & harassing them with a Stormraven, but do not go into hover mode under any circumstances

Okay, so that plan is out. My vote also goes for hiding and harassing. Maybe a couple fast razor backs? If he's got the battle cannon, he has to hull point them out because AP 3 sucks against vehicles even harder now.

I though you need 3 Knights to be a valid cad/formation or whatever the IK book has it as.
as well i thought it was I3 not 4 (book is away atm)

Also you could just run storm ravens and fly around them forever. chuck a dread or two in for Initiative 4-5 ST10 attacks. and make sure whatever is on the field T1 wont insta die. (preferably with a com relay)

3 Knights? This gets better and better.

Martel732 wrote:
3 Knights? This gets better and better.

he wouldnt be able to bring 3 knights at 1000 IIRC. ima go see if i can find the costs.

The only close combat option i can see is Gabriel Seth on the charge. 5 rending S10 attacks on the charge getting extra hits for each 6 rolled to hit.

Other than that I think its going to have to be melta and high strength weapons in some form.

Any suggestions other than the las predator?

Tri-las pred, outflanking razor backs. It sounds crazy, but maybe get a biker priest and get some FNP MM attack bikes. The knights frankly don't sound very fair.

4 X las cannon devs going to ground behind an aegis line to make a knight waste their fire every turn?

They have that 1 glaring weakness of cant shoot flyers or invisible things. and with knights they will probably not have any anti psyker.

 Desubot wrote:
They have that 1 glaring weakness of cant shoot flyers or invisible things. and with knights they will probably not have any anti psyker.

Most flyers can't affect AV 13 well, though.

You mean besides the multi meltas and assault cannons on rends?

Also FYI. IK requires 3 knights to be a legit army so no 1000k games

Edit: Blargal yeah you are right. 1-3 allied.

oh well two knights are easier to deal with than 3 i guess.

you can run a Knight detachment of 1-3 knights as allies.

Knights actually aren't that scary on tabletop. Yes, they hit hard, but they cant be everywhere. Enough of anything AT will bring them down eventually, but they can and will inflict causalities on your forces until dealt with

EDIT: Said formation. the Adamantium Lance requires 3 knights, so is both too expensive and makes them even harder to deal with.

Avoid cc with them. Even with a heavy beatstick unit you still run this risk of the thing wiping them out with 1 lucky stomp, or exploding and killing them all anyway.

Melta weapons on multiple fronts would be how I deal with them. Flyers, drop pods or deepstrike come to mind.

Position your units so the shield can only effect a fraction of your shooting, and hope you get some explode results.

Sticking some meltabombs in the units is a good idea too, as knights can take a while to chew through marines.

All in all, a single knight is a pain at 1000 points, but not too bad. If someone brings two however then it is a horrible force to go against.

I though you need 3 Knights to be a valid cad/formation or whatever the IK book has it as.

They FAQ'd this. You can have a CAD Of 1-3 knights now. 1 can only be the warlord if you have 3 knights.

 Desubot wrote:
You mean besides the multi meltas and assault cannons on rends?

Also FYI. IK requires 3 knights to be a legit army so no 1000k games

Rending on individual weapons is so unreliable that in my experience it can never be counted on. Rending on entire ARMIES is quite reliable over the course of a game. Also, with the nerf to vehicle damage, destroying things with multimeltas has gotten slower as well.

Martel732 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
You mean besides the multi meltas and assault cannons on rends?

Also FYI. IK requires 3 knights to be a legit army so no 1000k games

Rending on individual weapons is so unreliable that in my experience it can never be counted on. Rending on entire ARMIES is quite reliable over the course of a game.

We get it.. you hate eldar..

Anyway its not awful on side or rear. you guarantee pens on 6s with Bs4 + Strafing run (IIRC) though the MM should be the primary focus. so fly from one side and have the las on the otherside and go from some cross shooting.

leave some parting shots next turn or go all out if you can and drop a deadly payload.

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
You mean besides the multi meltas and assault cannons on rends?

Also FYI. IK requires 3 knights to be a legit army so no 1000k games

Rending on individual weapons is so unreliable that in my experience it can never be counted on. Rending on entire ARMIES is quite reliable over the course of a game.

We get it.. you hate eldar..

Anyway its not awful on side or rear. you guarantee pens on 6s with Bs4 + Strafing run (IIRC) though the MM should be the primary focus. so fly from one side and have the las on the otherside and go from some cross shooting.

leave some parting shots next turn or go all out if you can and drop a deadly payload.

I was just using it as a statistical example. The point is that the amount of rending that two or even three Stormravens generates is not reliable. It's the same reason that blessings are still uber good. Basically any plan that involves rolling a lot of "6"s is not good.

Unreliable, but better then nothing.

Assault Cannons vs side/rear on knights translates into 6s Pen, because the 6 is a glance, and then +d3 for the pen. So it becomes a case of shooting Wraithknights then (WKs have a 4++, correct?)

WKs are just 3+ I think. They die like slime to grav all the time. Or Mephiston.

WK have 3+ 5++ that sparkle

I thought they had an invun, my bad.

But still, it's not quite as bad as it sounds.

EDIT: Ninja'd, but I thought so

That's right, they can buy 5++, but they lose their good guns. It doesn't help them against grav or Mephiston, though.

My experience with SHV-Walkers is as follows:
You can easily ignore them, because they are quite slow.
It's always a good idea to cover to avoid their shooting.
If you focus too much on it, you will probably lose.

You want to avoid getting into CC because it will cost you too much.
The only time it's a good idea to get into combat is if you can lock him in that combat for three turns or so.
I once managed to do this with a Furioso Dreadnought, that was priceless. The best option would be TH/SS-Terminators.

Kangodo wrote:
My experience with SHV-Walkers is as follows:
You can easily ignore them, because they are quite slow.
It's always a good idea to cover to avoid their shooting.
If you focus too much on it, you will probably lose.

You want to avoid getting into CC because it will cost you too much.
The only time it's a good idea to get into combat is if you can lock him in that combat for three turns or so.
I once managed to do this with a Furioso Dreadnought, that was priceless. The best option would be TH/SS-Terminators.

1) They move 12" at least so they wont be slow besides for eldar jetbikes.
2) They certainly cant get ignore cover besides the flamer one.
3) yep. spend the first few turns killing the Obsec and move on.

4) watch out for stomps.