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I have a question about rapid fire weapons I hope someone can help me with.

For stationary troops, do you choose to rapid fire before you measure or do you measure then for any model that is in rapid fire range automatically rapid fires?

Thank you for any assistance you can provide.

You automatically do it. There is no option to fire 1 shot within 12" or 2 shots past 12".

@skyth, the rules for rapid fire note "a model CAN shoot twice at targets up to 12" away" it does not note MUST or DOES or "a model shoots twice at targets up to 12" away" so there is an option to fire 1 shot within 12" (something you may want to do if you have a plasma rifle or other weapon with gets hot rules)

@Einstein, I don't think that is actually covered (or at least I can't find it) the way the people I normally play with do it is that you declare target and then see if you get two shots or one after declaration. As a house rule I like to use if you measure a distance from one unit to another without verbally declaring that is automatically the unit that you fire at.

@skyth, the rules for rapid fire note "a model CAN shoot twice at targets up to 12" away" it does not note MUST or DOES or "a model shoots twice at targets up to 12" away" so there is an option to fire 1 shot within 12"

Haven't we done this one before?

There are two options given for Rapid Fire weapons:

1: You can fire a RF weapon twice at a target within 12"
or
2: You can fire a RF weapon once at a target more than 12" away, up to the weapon's maximum range.

There is no option given to fire a single shot at a target less than 12" away. The only option within 12" is that you may fire, or you may choose not to fire.

@insaniak: I don't see how you can pull that interpretation out of the rules for rapid fire weapons on P29, I had aboiut a month hiatus from dakka so I may have missed the thread but as I noted, it says CAN not must or does.

Yes, it says that the model can fire twice at targets up to 12" away.

It then says that the model may INSTEAD fire a single shot at targets more than 12" away, up to the maximum Range of the weapon.

So you have two options: 2 shots within 12", or one between 12" and Max Range

If the single shot at 12" was allowed, it would instead say merely that the model could fire a single shot up to the maximum range of the weapon, rather than specifying that the single shot is at targets more than 12" away.

Yay, more GW vagueness. I can see how you could come up with that and to be honest that is probably more solid than the command squad rules currently in question and I guess it would even work fluffwise. Yet another reason to only take plasma rifles in units where you have apothecaries (hey, since you don't have to have a leader of the command squad maybe that is the best way to take them) ok, I am going to stop rambling now

For what it's worth, this was also clarified in the FAQs on the GW forums.

link?

http://us.games-workshop.com/community/forums/40Kforum.htm

Or more precisely:

http://us.games-workshop.com/membership/eshare.pl?do=ShowArticle&BoardID=4&ID=3940417

I've read the FAQ and I'd like to calrify a point, or at least bounce my interpretation off some people. Mostly because I had someone hit me with a weird interpretation of this rule.

I've played rapid fire weaopns as follows:
During the shooting phase you make a conscious choice to rapid fire your weapons and then delcare it. You then measure your range. If you have targets 12" or closer, you rapid fire.. if they are 13" away.. Tuff-Taters. I think of it as the Vet saying "Ok boys, full auto!" and the whole squad switches their guns to full auto, and fires.

Recently.. I had someone fire their rapid fire guns and then measure, and declare "I'm within 12" so I rapid fire." They then went on to claim that half the squad was rapid firing and half wasn't as they were outside the 12" to rapid fire. I tried to explain the difference between choosing to fire rapid fire or choosing to fire regularly . . . and the implicite differrences between declaring and measuring versus measing and then declaring, but they didn't get it. Eventually I just let it go.. but.. seriously... someone back me up.

In friendly games, we play it like this:

1.  Declare target.
2.  Measure distance from each model to target to see who's in double-tap range (12") and who isn't.
3.  Double-tappers fire twice, everyone else fires once.

Don't know if that's exactly right, but it sure makes things easier, and seems fair.  I'm hoping I can be lazy on this one and let people who have the rulebook with them figure it  out.

As I read your post you seem to be making a common mistake.  That is thinking that Rapid Fire is something that your soldier DO.  It is  not, any more than firing an assault weapon is "assaulting", firing a pistol is "pistoling" or firing a heavy weapon is "heavying".

Rapid Fire is a type of weapon with specific rules.  Those rules say that within 12" you get two shots.  Getting two shots, however, is not rapid firing, it is shooting a rapid fire weapon.  A stationary squad with some models in 12" and some out get two shots per model within 12" and one shot per model from 12" to max range.  The sqaud did not rapid fire they shot rapid fire weapons.

I hope I'm making myself clear.

I am with Iorek, and actually have never met anyone who plays any differently.

I am with Iorek as well. Having observed a load of Rapid Fire arguments and resolutions including the Peter Haines quote linked to above, the rules are quite clear if you accept Peter Haines as an authoritative source.

1. Rapid Fire is a class of weapon.
2. Troops armed with Rapid Fire weapons will automatically fire twice if their target is within 12 inches. (This could be only the front rank of a unit.)
3. The only ways to stop this are to declare in advance that models are not shooting (e.g. plasma gun) or to take a Ld roll to shoot at a more distant target.

The bit that is not resolved is where the casualties are removed from. I.e. from within the 12 inch RF range or from the whole of the target unit? This makes a huge difference to the effects of rapid firing.

No no my friend.... I believe you are making the mistake in thinking that a bolter doesn't ALWAYS rapid fire...... and I don't mean the rule term, I mean the bolter ALWAYS fires a bunch of rounds a minute...... the difference? If you're within 12" the bullets are more likely to hit you than if you're outside of 12 inch, thus, two hit rolls for the bolters instead of one. It's not a star trek "set phasers to stun" sort of thing... it's a "butt load of shots" sort of thing that spray all over the place all the time, always. Bolters are basically machine guns.... you're less likely to get hit by a machine gun firing from a hundred yards away than you are from one firing from 20 yards away..... but that doesn't mean it's not firing the same amount of shots.

Angron, who are you talking to?  I'm confused.  Also by all the ellipses you're using instead of a single period.  Yikes.

Proper grammer will help people take you more seriously.