Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ 295

Tzeentche daemon prince
wings
armor
level 3 psyker (1 tzeentche 2 biomancy)
Aura of dark glory


Fast Attack 170:
Helldrake

Troops 315:
10 marines
2x plasma

30 cultists
3 heavy stubbers/flamers

Heavy Support 580:
10 havocs 4 autocannons
10 havocs 4 lascannons
10 havocs 4 autocannons

I intended this to be a 1500 point list but failed at math when I was writing it down. So I currently have 140 points to work with. Normally I'd give a rhino to the marine squad, but I'm worried that it would explode on turn 1, since it'd be the only vehicle in play. Although I suppose I could leave it in reserves. I do have a skyshield landing pad, which I'm considering shoving all the havocs on for the invulnerability save. (I don't actually know how many points it costs, because I don't currently have the book that has its rules.) The down side of doing that would be that I only really have one angle to shoot from, so it'd be easier to hide things from them, which could be okay if I'm going for table control. I also kind of want to give the marine squad the ccw upgrade, so that it's more versatile, and I don't really know what could happen when I march them towards a random objective. Probably also give that champion a combi plasma and power sword. Possibly mark of Nurgle. I think I could potentially squeeze a termicide unit in there as well. It would serve as a nice distraction at some point.

Another options that I'm really uncertain about would be to split up the 10 man marine squad to 2 6 man squads, adding 2 rhinos with havoc launchers and 2 more plasma guns.

I intend to roll on the strategic traits table. My favorite rolls are Night Attacker, which would allow me to dominate with the havocs without much retaliation and hopefully getting a turn of free movement for the sloggers. Second favorite roll would be Master of Ambush for the infiltrate. I could use that on the marine unit, cultist unit (although I'm not sure that's a good idea), and the havoc squads (which could be hilarious if there are tall buildings in the center of the field.) I'm not entirely sure if 3 pinning shots would be all that helpful. Most of my personal terrain is ruins, so Conqueror of Cities would also be pretty good. I'd definitely reroll on a 4 and 5.

Autocannons have to stay. I have a strong hatred for Eldar. (We used to play without terrain and start on the far table edges...) I could switch out the lascannons for missile launchers. I don't really want to use obliterators. Yeah they're good, but I prefer having more firepower over the versatility of the obliterator unit. (if they're ever moved back to elites, I'd be more than happy to shove them into the list.)

Cool list. I really like your block of 30 Chaos Bolter marines with 12 Autocannons. Together with the drake, I'd say you will ruin infantry lists.

You may struggle vs Armour 13+. Meltaguns+combi-melta for the Troop CSM squad? Or use 119_124 points on 3 deep striking Terminators with combi-meltas and 1 fist/chainfist.

You don't need to buy AoDG for the DP as the Daemon rule already gives him a 5++.

I think the termicide unit is kind of what I'm leaning towards. I was wanting to save my rhinos for my other chaos force that will be much more assaulty/quick. And there may be enough cover on the board already that the skyshield landing pad is redundant.

Thanks for the tip on the Daemon Prince.

elites:
3 termies 122
3 combi-meltas
chainfist

adding that and subtracting the aura, I have 33 points left. I think my preference is to give the foot slogging marine aspiring champion a combi plasma+meltabombs(because what else is that cheap) and everyone in it veterans of the long war. Although it annoys me that a combi-plasma is as expensive as a plasmagun. I'll also give the cultist "champion" a shotgun. Most of these choices are because it's easier for me to model. This leaves me with 1 point leftover.

I don't really wanna switch out the plasma because I don't believe that a worthwhile general would put a vehicle that close to a foot slogging infantry unit. (but again, I'm used to playing Eldar.)

Only really 1 question left. Is it better to give heavy stubbers to a squad of cultists that should be running over to an objecting and camping on it once they get there?

What are you going to do about flyers?

Sumshine wrote:I think the termicide unit is kind of what I'm leaning towards.

elites:
3 termies 122
3 combi-meltas
chainfist

It should add up to 124 as the champ has to buy Ithe combi from the armoury at 7p.

That unit is quite worthwhile, I've had some success with it.

LeperColony wrote:What are you going to do about flyers?

With 24 S7 shots at 48" I think he can glance most fliers to death. And with 30 marines holding home objectives I think he could get away with ignoring them too. Another CSM-drake would give it trouble though.

Shave 3 havoc bullet catchers to fit that inferno turkey.

Take termi cide wit combi meltas in your situation though.

Take a spell familiar on your prince! Too good an upgrade to pass up.

A lot of the targets the lascannons and autocannons will be firing at will not be in range of, or not be able to be hurt by, the bolters in the squad. I see that you are trying to protect your heavy weapons with extra bodies, but I feel 6 bodies over 3 squads is way, way overkill. Try bringing them down to squads of 7. You will have 117 more points to spend then, on, say, a fortification! A cool tactic you could do is put 5 chosen in a rhino with 5 flamers, and then when your opponent reaches your line of havocs, run up, disembark, and flame em!

I like the way you think!

I would change the lascannons to autocannons also because lascannons are so expensive and just aren't that good. Anything AV 14 I would try to deep strike some termies with combi meltas, chain fists, and power fists. Also, if you decrease the bodies in each havoc squad like they were saying, you might be able to add a biomancy sorcerer to the termies' squad. I have a lot of fun with termies and biomancy sorcerers.

Unfortunately I don't have 4 more autocannons. I could switch to missile launchers though (are the anti-flying missiles worth while?). I mainly have the lascannons in there, because they are 15 points cheaper a piece from when I was playing a lot. They definitely aren't good against eldar, but I've not really had much play experience using them [against anything else], and they are pretty cheap at the moment (at least compared to what they used to be). I will need to play test the different weapons again. In the end it wouldn't be really be freeing up many points, and I'd be throwing out some versatility.

I like the idea of a countercharge unit, but I'm not sold on chosen+flamers as being the best choice. a single rhino would be targeted early and then the small chosen unit would be left in the open. If I were to hide it behind a building until something got close enough, it's more or less wasting those points until that happens, and I already have quite a bit in the back field. I'm also not sure if there'd even be a place to hide the rhino. I can count on there being cover, but not necessarily tall buildings or hills.

I will need to test out using smaller units of havocs. However, right now I'm expecting the extra bodies to be necessary. Having more bodies means more have to die in a turn to activate a ld test (unless that's changed) as well as taking a few more turns to whittle them down enough to start removing the heavy weapons themselves. I don't want to start losing my big guns on turn 2. It also makes it harder for the enemy to get kill points. The rhino and chosen squad are 2 more potential kill points for the enemy, and to buy them I'd have to make it easier to kill my havoc squads.

If I were to take out some of the "extra" from the havoc squads, I would need those points to do something more valuable than keeping those 12 heavy weapons on the table (or perform the same role). 117 points doesn't get me a worthwhile unit. If I were to squeeze a little more out by changing the lascannons to missile launchers or autocannons, I could get a small unit of something or other. However, I'm not sure if the offensive trade off would be worthwhile. I don't see many good units in CSM codex for under 200 points. HQ's can be helpful, but they need to be backed up by something. I don't want to add one to termicide squad, because they're already a target and I expect them to die quickly. That isn't going to be enough points for another DP (if I can even take 2, which I don't remember right now). Warpsmith would be ok, but I think I'd rather have more wounds on those squads. I don't really need a lord for anything that I can think of. Sorceror and Dark apostle are questionable, but I don't really see a useful strategy to use with the rest of the army with either. Also consider that a counter charge unit wouldn't be effective until the enemy is in the havoc squad's bolter range. As for considering a fortification, I'm not sure if they're really worthwhile. The one that I own is a skyshield landing pad. The invulnerability save is nice, but how much better is it than a cover save that's free? I'd essentially be taking off wounds of the squads I want to protect to purchase it, which seems counter-productive.

I was planning on using the heldrake as anti-air, since that's the only flier we have in the codex. If it doesn't perform that role well, I could be convinced to throw it on ebay and buy a better AA unit from forgeworld. Otherwise ignoring the Air stuff seems like the best plan.






I guess it's possible that I'm overestimating my opponents' desire to kill the havocs, but the only other thing that I see in the list with high priority are flyers.