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2015/01/04 22:02:14
Subject: Power of the machine spirit, ordnance and skyfire. also stormravens.
Power of the machione spirit allows you to fire an additional weapon at full ballistic skill.
In relation to skyfire, I'm 90% sure that doesn't affect the fact that you have to snapshoot, but others might well say it does, I'm after opinions on this.
In relation to ordnance, does it allow a tank to fire an ordnance gun and then fire another gun at full ballistic skill?
And before we get into needless arguments of "Where does this come up?", techpriests can give a vehicle "Power of the machine spirit". Could be a basalisk, could be a hydra. so it could come up.
also, for stormravens, if they use power of the machine spirit to fire the multimelta at a flier and the rest of the guns at a ground target, can just the one gun use skyfire or are all the guns constrained by skyfire/not skyfire?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/04 22:03:39
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
I'll let other deal with the first few questions, however, for the last, for Flyers, either all weapons have Skyfire, or none of the weapons have Skyfire.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2015/01/05 12:56:20
Subject: Re:Power of the machine spirit, ordnance and skyfire. also stormravens.
There is some debate as to how POTMS interacts with some other rules. If its a separate entity to those or not.
Searching 'Jink' 'POTMS' 'ordnance' or anything like that will likely throw up a good number of threads within the last few months on the topic, basically there are 3 minds...
1. If you have the restriction to only fire snapshots a additional shot at full BS doesn't override that restriction.
2. POTMS is meant to operate as a 'separate entity' and does not interact at all with other rules
3. (as a addition to point 2.) 'Resolved as a snap shot' is different to having to fire only snap shots so while you can fire at full BS at a target, you still can not at a flyer.
I am for point 1. Because (Quote from another thread which deals with POTMS & Jink as examples-)
Spoiler:
Normally permitted reads like POTMS is X + 1 at full BS. Firing none at full BS as the result of special rules is not what is 'Normally permitted'.
You have these rules;
You can fire 4 weapons at full BS (Basic)
You can fire 1 more weapon at full BS (SR)
You can only fire snap shots (SR)
How do you decide how they are played? What rules basis are you providing for doing the maths that way?
I mean, when we can say Restrictions override permissions is there actually any rules basis for POTMS overriding the restriction ? We can see it would override the movement rules in regards to how many can be fired at Full and how many have to snap shot because those are basic rules, but finding a way to override a restriction which is on the same 'level' is much harder.
**
The modifiers section in this regard would be a bit dodgy anyway, but in fact the ORR on characteristic modifications are Multiply, then add / subtract then apply any set values.
Multiple Modifiers
If a model has a combination of rules or wargear that modify a characteristic, first apply
any multipliers, then apply any additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values.
BS is a characteristic, and a snap shot is a set value, snap shots are quite a restrictive rule;
Snap Shots
Under specific circumstances, models must fire Snap Shots.... If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than
shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of
those shots....
The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that
specifically state that they affect Snap Shots.... If a special
rule doesn’t specifically state that it affects Snap Shots, then the Snap Shot is resolved at
Ballistic Skill 1.
Pair that with the rules of Jink
start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn.
But even so with the rules for applying modifications there is a much more worrisome problem with the conflict in the rules. Quite simple not all these rules can be fulfilled,
you have 2 advanced rules (im still going with jink here..)
You can fire 1 more weapon at full BS.
You can only fire snap shots.
Its impossible to fire 1 more weapon at full BS if you can only fire snap shots, you also can't modify those snap shots.... however..
Its less clear cut with its interactions with the basic rules for vehicles movement speed also. As snap shots state you can not change the BS without the rule specifying it effects snap shots, not even special rules.
But mainly because point 2. can not currently be verified as true - POTMS does not make it clear it isn't effected by these restrictions, and without doing so there is no reason rules wise to not apply the restrictions to it.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/01/05 13:03:56
It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.
Tactical objectives are fantastic
2015/01/05 19:20:30
Subject: Power of the machine spirit, ordnance and skyfire. also stormravens.
Along a similar topic, when choosing weapon order, can you fire your normal weapons before your ordnance one, thereby circumventing the ordnance restriction?
DFTT
2015/01/05 23:56:29
Subject: Power of the machine spirit, ordnance and skyfire. also stormravens.
Captyn_Bob wrote: Along a similar topic, when choosing weapon order, can you fire your normal weapons before your ordnance one, thereby circumventing the ordnance restriction?
No.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
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2015/01/07 19:21:32
Subject: Power of the machine spirit, ordnance and skyfire. also stormravens.
Captyn_Bob wrote: Along a similar topic, when choosing weapon order, can you fire your normal weapons before your ordnance one, thereby circumventing the ordnance restriction?
ordnance states that all weapons fired that turn must snapfire, not weapons fired after ordnance - if they don't, no ordnance.
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
