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shogun wrote:
But the 3 riptides that could fire double shots once a game really hurt, damn...

Hailfire (4x shots from the main gun) is only once a game, but the Ripple Fire (2x shots from everything) is every turn - and it lasts the whole turn, so if you Mind Control him you get to use it too.

The other thing is, if he's deploying behind bubblewrap he'll have all of his units bunched up, so you can Mind Control the Tuna and drop a 7" Strength D blast on his bubblewrap to get rid of it, and maybe a couple of Suits too with the rest of the weapons. If he's read Broodmind he'll probably put the Tuna in the middle of everything so you can't use the D blast for that, but it has a tonne of other weapons for you to fire. Use that to get rid of the wrap and wait until turn 2 to make charges. If he's killed a tonne of your units then maybe try to drop a Summons to bring the numbers back up.

I'm thinking your priority for powers will be Mind Control >= Summons > Mass Hypnosis until you've got a run at his Suits, then Summons > Mass Hypnosis > Mind Control. Worst case scenario you roll 1 & 3 five times, then 1, 3 & 4 on the Crouchling - then you Mass Hypnotise the Riptides down to BS1 and use Mental Onslaught to strip wounds off his Super-Heavy. Maybe hold back your CAD units to grab points while he's sitting in the corner trying to rinse you.

Overall I'm thinking the way to approach this is to put a ton of stuff on the table. Use your psychic powers to spoil his shooting, give him 25+ units to chew through at 3"-18" and see if he's up to the task.

 BBAP wrote:

shogun wrote:
But the 3 riptides that could fire double shots once a game really hurt, damn...

Hailfire (4x shots from the main gun) is only once a game, but the Ripple Fire (2x shots from everything) is every turn - and it lasts the whole turn, so if you Mind Control him you get to use it too.

You mean: ripple fire nova power doubles the shooting from the sms, fusion and plasma gun and Hailfire: all shooting (even ripple fire shots) doubled once a game. So mind controlling a riptide with ripple fire activated will get you 8 heavy burst cannon shots and 2x4 twin linked sms-shots.

You just have to drop in second turn and then those riptides have to choose if they're going to intercept or saving up they're shooting for the next turn(with hailfire). But not using intercept on a full GSC army that deploys in front of your nose with a couple of '6' results and still capable of using psychic powers is a gamble. Bubble wrap is also not much of an issue if the GSC can simply remove it the second turn and start assaulting the "empty" intercepting units turn 3.

Mind control is usefull but summon is the real winner in this scenario.. +20 neophytes...yes please!

shogun wrote:
You mean: ripple fire nova power doubles the shooting from the sms, fusion and plasma gun and Hailfire: all shooting (even ripple fire shots) doubled once a game. So mind controlling a riptide with ripple fire activated will get you 8 heavy burst cannon shots and 2x4 twin linked sms-shots.

That's it - Hailfire from the Formation plus MC plus two weapons plus Ripplefire = 4 shots from the main gun and two from the SMS. That's once per game. Ripple Fire is 2 shots from anything it's carrying, and that's every turn (but lasts the whole turn). Nova makes the main gun better but he won't use that unless you bring tanks.

Mind control is usefull but summon is the real winner in this scenario.. +20 neophytes...yes please!

I disagree, at least early on. The Neophytes just aren't a threat to T6+ Suits - Seismics are AP3, Mining Lasers are single shot, GLs wound on 4+ - and if his bubblewrap is a Piranha Wing then they're not much of a threat to that, either. That's a unit he can ignore.

Thinking on, I reckon Mass Hypnosis would probably be the best power to use here. Mind Control rolls to hit, so it's not reliable enough on BS4 dudes, Summons isn't guaranteed to drop the unit where you need it, Psionic Blast is AP3 which sucks, Mental Onslaught from the Patriarch may work but is still a punt - but Mass Hypnosis he has no defence against other than a Culexus, and even one hit of it will make any Suit hit on 5+. If he has a Culexus sitting in the blob then Summoning might be a better idea.

 BBAP wrote:

shogun wrote:
You mean: ripple fire nova power doubles the shooting from the sms, fusion and plasma gun and Hailfire: all shooting (even ripple fire shots) doubled once a game. So mind controlling a riptide with ripple fire activated will get you 8 heavy burst cannon shots and 2x4 twin linked sms-shots.

That's it - Hailfire from the Formation plus MC plus two weapons plus Ripplefire = 4 shots from the main gun and two from the SMS. That's once per game. Ripple Fire is 2 shots from anything it's carrying, and that's every turn (but lasts the whole turn). Nova makes the main gun better but he won't use that unless you bring tanks.

"4 shots form the main gun and two from the sms" ehhh no, it's the other way around.
"Ripple Fire is 2 shots from anything it's carrying" Ripple fire is only double sms, fusion and plasma shots and not the main gun (Heavy burst cannon).

I think you mean the same but I cannot follow your explanation.

Mind control is usefull but summon is the real winner in this scenario.. +20 neophytes...yes please!

I disagree, at least early on. The Neophytes just aren't a threat to T6+ Suits - Seismics are AP3, Mining Lasers are single shot, GLs wound on 4+ - and if his bubblewrap is a Piranha Wing then they're not much of a threat to that, either. That's a unit he can ignore.

Thinking on, I reckon Mass Hypnosis would probably be the best power to use here. Mind Control rolls to hit, so it's not reliable enough on BS4 dudes, Summons isn't guaranteed to drop the unit where you need it, Psionic Blast is AP3 which sucks, Mental Onslaught from the Patriarch may work but is still a punt - but Mass Hypnosis he has no defence against other than a Culexus, and even one hit of it will make any Suit hit on 5+. If he has a Culexus sitting in the blob then Summoning might be a better idea.

 vercingatorix wrote:
And this makes sense as it was what happened at Renegade GT. Taunar, riptide wing, and pirranah wing vs. Full bore, 150 model msu insurrection.
Tau had first turned, GSC set everything up like they were going first, 9 units rolled 6s. GSC seized the initiative! They murdered most of the bubble wrap, managed to tie up the Tau-naur.

Then the riptides hail fired and what was left bubble wrap managed to pretty much wipe everything nearby out and the Tau guy won. Granted he's the captain of Team America but his opponent was no slouch either.

Can't find a batrep for this at all, but I'd like to see one. Got a link?

shogun wrote:
"4 shots form the main gun and two from the sms" ehhh no, it's the other way around.
"Ripple Fire is 2 shots from anything it's carrying" Ripple fire is only double sms, fusion and plasma shots and not the main gun (Heavy burst cannon).

I think you mean the same but I cannot follow your explanation.

The Riptide Wing Formation rule (Hailfire) means the Suit can shoot twice, so 2x8 shots from the burst and 2x4 from the SMS. If you use it and also Ripple Fire you get 4x8 from burst cannon and 2x4 from SMS. Once per game.

The Nova Reactor rule of the Riptide itself can either give 3++, better Burst cannon profile (Heavy 12, Rending etc), or allows one weapon to fire twice - this is every turn. This is the one you can use with Mind Control.

deployment: Tau go first and GSC deploys as far away as possible and/or out of sight
first turn: tau shoots a bit if possible and GSC go into the shadows with only one unit on the field.
second turn: Tau can only shoot one unit if possible and GSC come in with cult ambush. Tau use interceptor....

From that point on the GSC need to be in close combat asap and the best way to do this, is to summon extra units at round 2. Tau interceptor will probably kill the units that got a '6' result so GSC got to move in at round 3.

But if the Tau reach that one unit, i.e. with with their Super-heavy's 72" guns, it will die, and you're screwed.

What I'm thinking is:

Deployment: Tau go first and deploy in a blob behind wrapping. GSC deploy second; Infiltrate psykers in units 18" away from the Wrap, Ambush everything else, put 3s, 4s and 5s in midfield next to the psykers (SubUp units in front of Cycle units), leave any 6s 10" away from wrap, deploy CADs normally.

Turn 1: Tau either shoots charging units or psykers. If he kills chargers the wrap won't move; if he kills psykers the wrap moves out to lock chargers on the table with Suits behind to keep up Supporting Fire. Then you RttS with any CADs and any units that get a 1 or a 2; psykers and second line move in to Hypnotise Suits and maybe Mind Control the Super-Heavy. Any 6s that survive push up towards the wrap. Don't charge it - just leave them sitting in front of it.

From there the game plays out depending on what the Tau do, but anything that survives into your second turn can now charge and is now on top of the Tau blob. I agree GSC need to get into close combat as fast as possible to survive this game and win, but I think Cult Ambush is too unreliable to achieve that en masse.

As a Tau player, I can tell you that I would almost certainly not start in a blob or castle vs GSC. Rather, I'd probably spread out, loosely bubble-wrapping as necessary, and deny you useful deployment options in my DZ and then run away using JSJ during my turn. That way, if you manage to get some lucky 6's, you're still likely stuck eating through a few trash units before getting to the meat, and I'd be able to regroup and reposition as necessary without being hemmed in by your other infiltrating/ambushing forces. My game plan would be to push midfield and maintain intercepting LOS to objectives while occupying objectives with something beefy. If that happens, it's basically game over for GSC. You've got to hope you can take out a crucial chunk of big guns early - perhaps by Stormsurge mind control or lots of ambushing nastiness.

Granted, my Tau armies tend to be really mobile. I don't know if that's the norm, but I'm typically flying large-ish suits all nimbly-bimbly from tree to tree throughout the game. Blob Tau died with the 6th ed. codex for me.

@BBAP, sorry mate your way wrong on those tau rules. You can literally only ripple fire the secondary weapons like the SMS, plasma or fusion. Thats it. You can't ripple fire the main weapons. hail fire on the other hand lets it get a second round of shooting, meaning it can pick new targets, you son't actually fire all the shots at once, you resolve one round of fire from all systems then get another round of shooting. This subtle difference makes a big impact in game since they need more marker lights, and can also shoot a unit out of range or line of sight before getting another round of shooting.

 BBAP wrote:

deployment: Tau go first and GSC deploys as far away as possible and/or out of sight
first turn: tau shoots a bit if possible and GSC go into the shadows with only one unit on the field.
second turn: Tau can only shoot one unit if possible and GSC come in with cult ambush. Tau use interceptor....

From that point on the GSC need to be in close combat asap and the best way to do this, is to summon extra units at round 2. Tau interceptor will probably kill the units that got a '6' result so GSC got to move in at round 3.

But if the Tau reach that one unit, i.e. with with their Super-heavy's 72" guns, it will die, and you're screwed.

No, because this happens at the beginning of round 2 and you only lose the game if you got no units on the table at the end of a game turn, not player turn. This will not happen because the GSC come in with cult ambush in round two.

 BBAP wrote:

What I'm thinking is:

Deployment: Tau go first and deploy in a blob behind wrapping. GSC deploy second; Infiltrate psykers in units 18" away from the Wrap, Ambush everything else, put 3s, 4s and 5s in midfield next to the psykers (SubUp units in front of Cycle units), leave any 6s 10" away from wrap, deploy CADs normally.

Turn 1: Tau either shoots charging units or psykers. If he kills chargers the wrap won't move; if he kills psykers the wrap moves out to lock chargers on the table with Suits behind to keep up Supporting Fire. Then you RttS with any CADs and any units that get a 1 or a 2; psykers and second line move in to Hypnotise Suits and maybe Mind Control the Super-Heavy. Any 6s that survive push up towards the wrap. Don't charge it - just leave them sitting in front of it.

From there the game plays out depending on what the Tau do, but anything that survives into your second turn can now charge and is now on top of the Tau blob. I agree GSC need to get into close combat as fast as possible to survive this game and win, but I think Cult Ambush is too unreliable to achieve that en masse.

I don't think this will work. Tau shooting in combination with overwatch and bubble wrap will be to much. You just simply deploy midfield and take a round of full tau shooting and expect their be enough to survive and take them down? Acolytes and metamorphs also got no fleet so with overwatch shooting its hard to reach any tau units from that position.

Interceptor fire is not as good as normal Tau shooting and even if the kill all GSC units that got a '6' result, the cannot fire next round, so all other GSC units can make a run move and lock the tau in to make sure the cannot get away and prepare for assault next turn. You only should use mind control instead of summoning if it really pays off. For example: removing 2 broadsides is nice but its better to get 20 neophytes to lock tau in close combat next round.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

MilkmanAl wrote:
As a Tau player, I can tell you that I would almost certainly not start in a blob or castle vs GSC. Rather, I'd probably spread out, loosely bubble-wrapping as necessary, and deny you useful deployment options in my DZ and then run away using JSJ during my turn. That way, if you manage to get some lucky 6's, you're still likely stuck eating through a few trash units before getting to the meat, and I'd be able to regroup and reposition as necessary without being hemmed in by your other infiltrating/ambushing forces. My game plan would be to push midfield and maintain intercepting LOS to objectives while occupying objectives with something beefy. If that happens, it's basically game over for GSC. You've got to hope you can take out a crucial chunk of big guns early - perhaps by Stormsurge mind control or lots of ambushing nastiness.

Granted, my Tau armies tend to be really mobile. I don't know if that's the norm, but I'm typically flying large-ish suits all nimbly-bimbly from tree to tree throughout the game. Blob Tau died with the 6th ed. codex for me.

I think you underestimate GSC flexibility. Tau armies usually don't got enough models to deny a GSC-army useful deployment options. If you spread out then GSC can choose a flank and if the break thru then the tau army it starts to crumble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:
@BBAP, sorry mate your way wrong on those tau rules. You can literally only ripple fire the secondary weapons like the SMS, plasma or fusion. Thats it. You can't ripple fire the main weapons. hail fire on the other hand lets it get a second round of shooting, meaning it can pick new targets, you son't actually fire all the shots at once, you resolve one round of fire from all systems then get another round of shooting. This subtle difference makes a big impact in game since they need more marker lights, and can also shoot a unit out of range or line of sight before getting another round of shooting.

what he said...

MilkmanAl wrote:As a Tau player, I can tell you that I would almost certainly not start in a blob or castle vs GSC. Rather, I'd probably spread out, loosely bubble-wrapping as necessary, and deny you useful deployment options in my DZ and then run away using JSJ during my turn.

As a Genestealer Cults player that's precisely what I want to see, though. You can't run from Ambushers or Summons, and unless you're hugging the board edge I can't see how you'd wrap individual Suits tightly enough to stop me landing charges. If you're using Drones I can clear a couple of them out with shooting then multi into the suit, and if you're using vehicles then they need to be very tight or I can charge right past them.

Having your dudes in a group means they can support each other - when Eldar do it it forces me to either have a lot of units ready to charge, so I can kill the whole blob before his Overwatch shreds me, or it forces me to throw away a couple of units to kill one of his - anything that unlocks will get blown up next turn. Seems to me like that would make even more sense for a Tau player with Supporting Fire - if you have two Riptides within 6" of each other I need 3 units to do any work; two to beat the Overwatch, and one to do the killing.

You've got to hope you can take out a crucial chunk of big guns early - perhaps by Stormsurge mind control or lots of ambushing nastiness.

I don't necessarily think you do. Land a single Mass Hypnosis on almost any Tau unit and it's hitting on 5s - it's still a lot of shots, and every hit is still a wound, but that's a lot less wounds than you'd get otherwise. ITC allows for a maximum of 6 GSC psykers, so that's six of your Suits hitting on 5s with everything until my next psychic phase.

Red Corsair wrote:@BBAP, sorry mate your way wrong on those tau rules. You can literally only ripple fire the secondary weapons like the SMS, plasma or fusion. Thats it

So they get LESS shots than I thought? That's what I like to hear! lol

A lot of tau players around here ally in coteaz with servo skulls. I would really really like, just one time, to kill coteaz before the game even starts to prevent a re-roll of the seize.

I'am doing a few test games against a tau army:

CAD:
- Commander with sum upgrades
- suit with flamer
- suit with flamer
- stormsurge

formation:
2x broadsides
1x broadside
riptide with sms and heavy burst cannon

formation:
3 riptides with sms and burst cannon

formation:
4x4 marker drones

Tau (proxie) deploys and uses drones as bubble wrap:



Only one drone can reach my big acolyte+primus unit but i don't care because they're behind the aegis defence line and you need two markerlight-hits for ignore cover.

Big acolyte unit deploys in the corner:


Other units from my subterean uprising deploy at the other corner behind sum cover and outside sms reach, the rest of my army I keep in reserve.



Tau moves forward and can only shoot with the Stormsurge at the big acolyte unit and I don't care. Its got no ignore cover so I got a 2+ coversave.

Then all subterean uprising units go into the shadows (+d6 replenish casualties for the big acolyte unit) except one unit of 5 acolytes.


Tau could shoot down 5 acolytes with sms but who cares.

Then the GSC come in (using pokerchips at this moment):


It's save to assume that the Tau army can shoot down all units that got a '6' result on the cult ambush table, so if you got the choice (subterean uprising double or triple d6 for cult ambush) pick '5' because you need to take down as much drones as possible (also maybe first blood). You're not going to assault anything your just preparing for the next turn. Don't be afraid to put your patriarch at the front. He can use his 3+ save and take the first two wounds before he is going to use his 'look out sir'. After interceptor shots you can do your psychic powers and run forward and/or shoot down more drones.

What's next is going to be difficult. Tau is going to move back and prepare for next turn shooting and you need to be able to reach them with sum units in close combat. If you don't your done.

 vercingatorix wrote:
A lot of tau players around here ally in coteaz with servo skulls. I would really really like, just one time, to kill coteaz before the game even starts to prevent a re-roll of the seize.

We don't know yet how the servoskull rules are going to react with cult ambush infiltrate but you can still play it the way I described and let your units come in second turn from ongoing reserves. Also realise that coteaz + inquisitor cost about the same as 2 broadsides and most times the also pick a unit acolytes to go with them. I rather face them instead of more tau units.

As a Genestealer Cults player that's precisely what I want to see, though. You can't run from Ambushers or Summons, and unless you're hugging the board edge I can't see how you'd wrap individual Suits tightly enough to stop me landing charges. If you're using Drones I can clear a couple of them out with shooting then multi into the suit, and if you're using vehicles then they need to be very tight or I can charge right past them.

Having your dudes in a group means they can support each other - when Eldar do it it forces me to either have a lot of units ready to charge, so I can kill the whole blob before his Overwatch shreds me, or it forces me to throw away a couple of units to kill one of his - anything that unlocks will get blown up next turn. Seems to me like that would make even more sense for a Tau player with Supporting Fire - if you have two Riptides within 6" of each other I need 3 units to do any work; two to beat the Overwatch, and one to do the killing.

So perhaps my use of "spread out" needs a little qualification. As Tau, I wouldn't recommend trying to use your entire DZ since that clearly compromises your ability to use Supporting Fire and leaves you more open to charges. What I mean is that I would space appropriately so that there's maybe 5-7" between units and board edges to prevent deployment of the ambush 6s. I guess you could call it a really loose castle, if you like.

The picture above is exactly how I would not deploy. Obviously, you get yourself surrounded pretty easily and have nowhere to collapse your forces to. There's no way to fall back and re-prepare to get ambushed again. You're kind of stuck with what you have.

 vercingatorix wrote:
A lot of tau players around here ally in coteaz with servo skulls. I would really really like, just one time, to kill coteaz before the game even starts to prevent a re-roll of the seize.

Coteaz can't take Servo Skulls as far as I know, not even using the old Codex, so that's a minimum of two Detachments and 128pts of your army gone all for an "advantage" that sucks against most any other army out there, and isn't even a huge problem for GSC to deal with - see what shogun said above. The absolute best I can see you doing here is forcing the SubUp closer to your dudes, which might be a good idea if you can wipe them all out - but do that, and I can Infiltrate my psykers on top of you instead of putting them in reserve.

You might want him dead pre-deployment. Me, I'd rather him and his pal stick around to force One Eye Open tests on any Tau units that go near them.

MilkmanAl wrote:
The picture above is exactly how I would not deploy. Obviously, you get yourself surrounded pretty easily and have nowhere to collapse your forces to. There's no way to fall back and re-prepare to get ambushed again. You're kind of stuck with what you have.

Problem is no matter how far you space your Suits out you're going to get surrounded if they're moving in a blob. Which they will be, because once the blob starts spreading out charging stuff becomes a less daunting prospect. I'm not sure flitting around is a good idea aginst Cult Ambush either. A couple of inopportune JSJ rolls might leave an opening that allows half your army to be rolled up, and GSC are more mible than you anyway. To me, it seems the best way to deal with Tau is to deny them as many "free" shots at my dudes as possible - and in turn, I'd think the best way to deal with GSC as Tau is to make sure every free shot you do get hurts as much as possible. Keep the blob together, make him pay for Cult Ambush and assaults, and just the blob along collecting objectives and kills.

So, just out of curiousity, if I were to be running a list at 1000 pts, how does this make you guys feel? Trying to get something together for running with friends. 1 item on the list is not like the others, but that is because it was the only thing I could think of.

1000pt List: Cult Insurrection

The First Curse w/ ML2 & 2 familiar
4x Shadow Skulkers w/ 10 models
1x Brood Brothers (1x Sentinel)

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
So, just out of curiousity, if I were to be running a list at 1000 pts, how does this make you guys feel? Trying to get something together for running with friends. 1 item on the list is not like the others, but that is because it was the only thing I could think of.

1000pt List: Cult Insurrection

The First Curse w/ ML2 & 2 familiar
4x Shadow Skulkers w/ 10 models
1x Brood Brothers (1x Sentinel)

If you're going to run a Cult Insirrection you will need a Core choice.

 jifel wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
So, just out of curiousity, if I were to be running a list at 1000 pts, how does this make you guys feel? Trying to get something together for running with friends. 1 item on the list is not like the others, but that is because it was the only thing I could think of.

1000pt List: Cult Insurrection

The First Curse w/ ML2 & 2 familiar
4x Shadow Skulkers w/ 10 models
1x Brood Brothers (1x Sentinel)

If you're going to run a Cult Insirrection you will need a Core choice.

I was fairly sleepy when I came up with this, but I don't think I was planning on the decurion. I think I was just fielding formations. That being said... I wonder if I could fit in a decent neophyte cavalcade.

Shadow stalkers are not an actual formation, just an option to yake indavisual genestealer units within the Insurrection.

The onea that are actual formations will have sections within the codex

 BBAP wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
And this makes sense as it was what happened at Renegade GT. Taunar, riptide wing, and pirranah wing vs. Full bore, 150 model msu insurrection.
Tau had first turned, GSC set everything up like they were going first, 9 units rolled 6s. GSC seized the initiative! They murdered most of the bubble wrap, managed to tie up the Tau-naur.

Then the riptides hail fired and what was left bubble wrap managed to pretty much wipe everything nearby out and the Tau guy won. Granted he's the captain of Team America but his opponent was no slouch either.

Can't find a batrep for this at all, but I'd like to see one. Got a link?

This was just a game I watched at renegade open.

I am building my first list at 1500 points, and one squad I want to include in my brood cycle is:

Iconward + Icon of Cult Ascendant
9 Metamorphs + 9x claws + cult icon
Dedicated Transport Goliath

I think that is a legal unit I just wanted to verify, can I start the iconward in the transport with the metamorphs and outflank? Am I allowed to use a cult icon and iconward in the same squad? And do I get the Familial Pride bonus if the goliath pulls up next to an enemy and my guys charge out?

Second question is assuming all this is legal, which I think it should be, is it a good idea? On paper it looks like about 50 str 7 attacks with rending and high weapon skill on a charge.

Morris782 wrote:

I think that is a legal unit I just wanted to verify, can I start the iconward in the transport with the metamorphs and outflank?

I believe you could outflank if taken as part of the Cult Uprising detachment, but you cannot if taken as just the Brood Cycle. Not quite sure why you would want to outflank over Cult Ambush with such a unit though. I'd probably leave outflanking to Goliath Trucks taken as part of a Demolition Claw since they get Tank Hunter on their autocannons.

Morris782 wrote:
Am I allowed to use a cult icon and iconward in the same squad?

The Iconward is an HQ independent character, so yes...

Morris782 wrote:

And do I get the Familial Pride bonus if the goliath pulls up next to an enemy and my guys charge out?

Reading the rule I don't see why not (just says a friendly model from the formation), though the Goliath itself doesn't gain any WS from having models in proximity.

Hi Guys! I've got a couple of questions:

1_The Cult Ambush rules says: ''... can choose to roll on the Cult ambush table... instead of arriving from reserves normally'' The issue about rolling 3+ to arrive is in a chapter called ''Arriving from reserves'' of the rulebook; DOES IT MEAN THAT I CAN COME FROM RESERVES AUTOMATICALLY WHEN RESERVES ARE ALLOWED (so turn 2 normally) without rolling the dices?

2_ I'm asking because 1d4chan says: ''...The rule very specifically says that Cult Ambushing is done instead of deploying or coming out of reserves normally, though they arrive as described for other reserves unless otherwise specified. This allows the Cults to effectively NULL DEPLOY, as they come in like reserves on the controlling player's FIRST TURN instead of normal deployment. '' but it doesnt seem right to me.

3_If I infiltrate and roll a 5, can I shoot in the deployment or moving turn? Otherwise I cant shoot twice I guess.

4_ What do you do when you get the second turn? Deploying in the face of ur opponent seems a suicide to me, what's ur tactic?

thank you

I believe you could outflank if taken as part of the Cult Uprising detachment, but you cannot if taken as just the Brood Cycle. Not quite sure why you would want to outflank over Cult Ambush with such a unit though. I'd probably leave outflanking to Goliath Trucks taken as part of a Demolition Claw since they get Tank Hunter on their autocannons.

Yes I am running Cult Insurrection detachment. I can't cult ambush transports I believe, so I either infiltrate or outflank with the death squad. I like the idea of having them mobile since Brood Cycle is 1 dice roll only and low chance to assault first turn. I figure I am leaving the roll of the dice to my primus and broodlord squads, I want one that is mobile and not dependent on dice rolls. So I put them in a metal box, infiltrate in a spot out of line of sight, and position so that on turn 2 I can roll up my open top transport, unload, and charge. Outflank is just a good option to have in case my opponent is deep strike heavy and I am not sure where I will need to position.

Speaking of mech Stealers, this is something I dream of running one day as soon as I can bash up enough Chimeras to serve as Rockgrinder stand-ins.

Ladies and Gentlebugs, I present to you: Geneblower.

++Cult Insurrection++
+Brood Brothers+
Leman Russ Exterminator w/ Lascannon and Multimeltas - 160 [Warlord]

+Neophyte Cavalcade+
Leman Russ Exterminator w/ Lascannon and Multimeltas - 160
10 Neophytes, 2 Mining Lasers - 80
-Chimera w/ Multilaser and Heavy Bolter - 65
10 Neophytes, 2 Mining Lasers - 80
-Chimera w/ Multilaser and Heavy Bolter - 65
Armored Sentinel w/ Multilaser and Hunter-Killer Missile - 50
Armored Sentinel w/ Multilaser and Hunter-Killer Missile - 50

+Demolition Claw+
5 Acolytes, Demolition Charge - 60
-Goliath 50
5 Acolytes, Demolition Charge - 60
-Goliath 50
5 Acolytes, Demolition Charge - 60
-Goliath 50
Goliath Rockgrinder w/ Clearance Incinerator - 80
Goliath Rockgrinder w/ Clearance Incinerator - 80
Goliath Rockgrinder w/ Clearance Incinerator - 80

+Demolition Claw+
5 Acolytes, Demolition Charge - 60
-Goliath 50
5 Acolytes, Demolition Charge - 60
-Goliath 50
5 Acolytes, Demolition Charge - 60
-Goliath 50
Goliath Rockgrinder w/ Clearance Incinerator - 80
Goliath Rockgrinder w/ Clearance Incinerator - 80
Goliath Rockgrinder w/ Clearance Incinerator - 80

Total: 1850

The Chimeras infiltrate as semi-static bunkers for the Mining Laser teams. Most everything else Infiltrates/Outflanks. Goliaths are there for TL Tank Hunter Autocannons.

12 goliaths...holy crap, SO MANY DEMO CHARGES!!!

I love it dude, so different from what I see people run (or run myself)

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
Hi Guys! I've got a couple of questions:

1_The Cult Ambush rules says: ''... can choose to roll on the Cult ambush table... instead of arriving from reserves normally'' The issue about rolling 3+ to arrive is in a chapter called ''Arriving from reserves'' of the rulebook; DOES IT MEAN THAT I CAN COME FROM RESERVES AUTOMATICALLY WHEN RESERVES ARE ALLOWED (so turn 2 normally) without rolling the dices?

2_ I'm asking because 1d4chan says: ''...The rule very specifically says that Cult Ambushing is done instead of deploying or coming out of reserves normally, though they arrive as described for other reserves unless otherwise specified. This allows the Cults to effectively NULL DEPLOY, as they come in like reserves on the controlling player's FIRST TURN instead of normal deployment. '' but it doesnt seem right to me.

3_If I infiltrate and roll a 5, can I shoot in the deployment or moving turn? Otherwise I cant shoot twice I guess.

4_ What do you do when you get the second turn? Deploying in the face of ur opponent seems a suicide to me, what's ur tactic?

thank you

1) No, you need to roll for reserves normally, then roll on the cult ambush table.

2) 1d4chan is wrong - nothing in cults can come in from reserves T1. You either a) deploy with it, in which case you essentially infiltrate but then roll on the table and apply the result (and since you haven't infiltrated in a turn, you are free to move and shoot as normal in T1), or b) come on from reserves using it, from T2 onwards.

3) You shoot out of phase - so if you roll a 5 before the game when deploying you get to shoot before the game starts! Likewise if you do it when coming in from reserves you shoot after you put the models down (before you roll your next reserve) and are free to shoot or run as normal in the shooting phase.

4) I have, in my limited experience so far, often opted for second turn. It means we get to pop out on objectives and win the game in Eternal war - but also means there is no risk of being seized on and having most of my army killed T1. I deploy far back behind an aegis defence line, which combined with Shrouded gives me 2+ cover, then take almost everything back into reserves T1 to regen models and come in together with the rest of my army T2. Other people may have other approaches though and this will depend on mission and matchup.

When using the Detachment all your units can infiltrate..giving you Null Deployment if you choose so.
If you infiltrate turn 1 you follow the rules for either infiltrate or cult ambush.
If using CA you cannot move or act in a way other than what CA allows you to do depending on your roll.
Deadly Trap allows you to shoot immediately when placing the unit..

ok! Thank you very much! I was thinking the same for the 2nd turn issue, the only problem is that: placing all the models, analyize the threats, roll the dices for every unit, remember the formation bonuses and the hq bonuses... Im an experienced player, but this is really too complicated, if I want to play well as well

I use deployment trays, numbered tokens for each squad, and tokens to mark which can charge the next turn.....I've forgotten about my 24" FnP from the icon ward every game so far

There's a lot of stuff to keep track of.

DarklyDreaming wrote:ok! Thank you very much! I was thinking the same for the 2nd turn issue, the only problem is that: placing all the models, analyize the threats, roll the dices for every unit, remember the formation bonuses and the hq bonuses... Im an experienced player, but this is really too complicated, if I want to play well as well

Just keep it simple and rely on the basic strategy: Getting you're rending units as fast and as save as possible in combat and play the mission. I don't use handflamers (distraction) and know what I want with my psychic powers. With movement tray's my games go fast enough and the cult ambush results do the rest.

AwesomeSauceGaming wrote:I use deployment trays, numbered tokens for each squad, and tokens to mark which can charge the next turn.....I've forgotten about my 24" FnP from the icon ward every game so far

There's a lot of stuff to keep track of.

I always forget that rending claws got ap 5 and that you can also use your close combat weapon if you don't want to kill sumthing.

Also one thing I want to share:

On paper those metamorphs with claws look amazing but in most cases the cheaper acolytes do the same job as wel. You need the bodies to take incoming fire but once you locked them in close combat it should be over.

If you take a subterranean uprising with:

- 5 acolytes
- 5 acolytes
- 10 metamorphs with claws
- 10 metamorphs with claws
- 10 metamorphs with claws

For the same amount of points you can have 9/10 more bodies with this setting:

- 11 acolytes
- 11 acolytes
- 11 acolytes
- 11 acolytes
- 5 metamorphs with claws

So thats almost 25% more bodies.

If I really want to take down a knight or big tank I rather summon sum rock saw acolytes or 10 claw metamorphs.