How strong is strong? Unarmed combat a thing?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Argive**

Greeting fellow dakkadakkians !!!

So I was just pondering the different strength values of all the different wierd and wonderful troops/equipment in the 40k universe and what they are representing.
Please bear in mind I'm not keyed up on all the new unit stats so I'm going from a long foggy memory but you should get the gist of what I'm saying regardless

Which got me thinking.. Take your average Eldar guardian who is a measly str3.
They wear mesh armor which is basicaly an exo sceleton type thing thats materialised through their conciousness (from what I understand could get my wiers crossed)

A space marine is str 4 and T4 (power armaaaaah!!!)
Ork boy str t4 coz they is orkz and bigg

Is there such a thing as potential unarmed combat ?

So, Could the Eldar in their enlightened technology not go to the gym and work out and take "steroids"? (as they live for 100's of years)

How strong is a space marine comparative to our world? (take average-joe strength and worlds strongest man type deal) Could they lift a car, a dumpster?
Do space marines work out?

DFo orkz for that matter ?
Could they not just do steroids and get bigger?
Does a power fist make you able to lift stuff that's really heave or does it just give you a "field" for better penetration?

**LordBlades**

The eldar could most likely augmwnt their strength, but why would they? Their fluff combat style relies more on agility and skill. Also, in fluff stuff like power swords (eldar don't use hammers and the like) cuts through armor just fine so I guess they just don't feel the need for more strength.

**Wyldhunt**

Actually, dark eldar *do* augment their strength chemically. Check the wych drug chart!

I always figured that they simply avoided strength-boosting bio-science because they might see it as a perversion of the eldar form.

Also, as mentioned, they tend to emphasize finesse over raw power.

**Argive**

Not so. Powerfield strips away matter but to make the cut you use physical blade. afaik. I could be wrong but I read this on some dakka thread

A striking scorpion or a howling banshee might want to..

**Deadnight**

Strength values are arbitrary, but kind of logarithmic. Str3 covers a huge range of ground, from weedy human who struggles to lift a cup of tea to an ork who can rip said human in half. Same with the other values.

Can marines bench press to get stronger? Yes. They'd still just be strength4.

**throwoff**

It is another fluff vs crunch thing. The fluff would make a marine without armour S5 at least with examples of them ripping robots to shreds with their bare hands. With armour probably they are probably closer to S10!

The game though has to be balanced and so they try to balance the values.

Fluff marines certainly train, and spend most of their time doing it, it certainly seems that older marines are stronger than new recruits although the gene seed makes the recruits an order of magnitude stronger than even the toughest natural human.

**Freman Bloodglaive**

The strongest human I think has overhead pressed about 400 pounds. I think a Marine, with their enhanced musculature and ceramic infused bones could probably overhead press about 1000 pounds without armour, and double that in armour. Terminator armour makes them harder to injure but I don't think it enhances strength any more than the power armour does, and good luck lifting anything over your head with terminator shoulder pads.

The strongest Eldar are probably on par with the strongest humans. Grots are weaker than humans, Orks a bit stronger, the basic boy being as strong as the strongest human, Nobz and Warbosses being stronger still. Looking at the Warboss I'd guesstimate he'd be as strong as an unarmoured Space Marine, maybe a bit stronger, 1200-1500 pounds.

So yes, Space Marines are scaled down a lot in order to keep the game balanced.

**LordBlades**

Argive wrote:
Not so. Powerfield strips away matter but to make the cut you use physical blade. afaik. I could be wrong but I read this on some dakka thread

A striking scorpion or a howling banshee might want to..

What I meant was that in fluff power swords seem to be xutting through most stuff just fine with normal human/eldar strength. Not that strength is irrelevant to the cut altogether.

**vipoid**

Kids - take drugs.

There are no side-effects whatsoever, and they can help you survive things that would otherwise kill you.

"Recently, I was attacked by this Warboss with a 'uge choppa'. he just came right at me and hit me square in the chest. If I hadn't been taking Painbringer, I'd have been a gonner for sure. But, thanks to that wonder drug, I just shrugged off the blow and cut that warboss' head clean off."

~ Anonymous Succubus

**DarkLink**

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
The strongest human I think has overhead pressed about 400 pounds. I think a Marine, with their enhanced musculature and ceramic infused bones could probably overhead press about 1000 pounds without armour, and double that in armour. Terminator armour makes them harder to injure but I don't think it enhances strength any more than the power armour does, and good luck lifting anything over your head with terminator shoulder pads.

Are you talking strict press or a jerk? I don't know of anywhere that tracks strict press world records, and olympic weightlifters can put a lot more than 400 overhead. And there's no quantitative measure of how much a space marine can lift, I don't believe.

**Argive**

Like olympic press a hatchback ?

**Great White**

If everything was based on fluff marines could punch a hole in anyone

**Sorcererbob**

I agree that the strength characteristic largely is logarithmic wherein it is difficult for someone in one class to move up or down, even with addition training or (minor) injuries.

Ridiculous fluff aside, I think that Str4 is a good representation of a space marine - they're stronger than humans in a way that a human could never achieve, but not as strong as a giant war boss ork (str 5), or a daemon prince (str... 8?).

**Spetulhu**

Stats from 0-10 and a d6 system make most comparisons a bit awkward. The marine is lots stronger than any unaugmented human. Exactly how much is unknown, but even the strongest "normal" human can't match the raw power of a marine.

Then again, the strongest human can't match the raw power of a smaller and lighter chimpanzee. We trade power for better muscle control - the chimp can't ever hope to handle a fine tool as well as a human, even if it can understand the idea behind it. Maybe even the Emperor ran into those considerations while making his marines. He could make them into brutish ape-men or less brutish supersoldiers still capable of using guns and tools well.