Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi,

I've just started playing orks as a second army so I have very limited practical experience with them, but I know enough to be aware that PK nobs don't like being challenged in cc. I was wondering if any experienced players have an opinion about manipulating the charge move to avoid challenges.

The scenario I'm thinking of is like this:
A PK nob and a mob of Boyz charge a smaller unit containing a character that the nob does not want to meet in a challenge. Because of the large number of boyz and the distance rolled for the charge, it is possible to complete the charge move (obeying all the rules) so that the nob finishes his charge more than 2" away from another model in base contact with the enemy (easier to achieve in a bottleneck of terrain). A challenge can therefore not be issued to him at the beginning of the cc.
As the boyz are I2, it is likely that a few from the front line will die before they get to pile in (especially vs. MEQ).
The nob gets to make his pile in move a full 3", which should then be enough to engage him in the combat, allowing him to strike at the enemy, his low initiative working in his favour.

Does anyone have experience doing this? Is it a valid tactic or so marginal in practice as to make it not worth bothering with?

Please add your thoughts!

Its handy for chaos who all have the 'must always issue a challenge' special rule, but it usually comes into play when receiving a charge since that's when you will have most control over placement but you could definetly do the same ekth your situation.

Also remember that challenges are issued at start of combat so regardless if you are I 10 or I 1 it doesn't matter (except I guess for models dying and opening pile in space)

It is a valid tactic. But keep in mind that if you hang back far enough to avoid the challenge, your boyz swing at I2. If they kill the models they are in B2B with, the nob won't be able to reach an enemy.

Also remember that your models can't move through each other. This means that with proper move order, you can use the boyz to 'hold back' the nob.

A 'simpler' way is to take 15pt Meks to eat up challenges. Sure you can only take 1 Mek for each HQ choice you have, but a couple of Meks in key squads to take a challenge to the face instead of a Warboss or Nob is very handy.

 GoonBandito wrote:
A 'simpler' way is to take 15pt Meks to eat up challenges. Sure you can only take 1 Mek for each HQ choice you have, but a couple of Meks in key squads to take a challenge to the face instead of a Warboss or Nob is very handy.

Not only simpler, this is purely more effective. And less likely to raise eyebrows from your opponents that assault move tactics. And significantly less likely to leave your Nob unable to swing.

 Thaylen wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
A 'simpler' way is to take 15pt Meks to eat up challenges. Sure you can only take 1 Mek for each HQ choice you have, but a couple of Meks in key squads to take a challenge to the face instead of a Warboss or Nob is very handy.

Not only simpler, this is purely more effective. And less likely to raise eyebrows from your opponents that assault move tactics. And significantly less likely to leave your Nob unable to swing.

I feel dodging challenges by sandbagging the Nob in the movement phase should raise no eyebrows. People bury characters in the middle of units to hide them from shooting why is burying them in the unit to save them from being challenge sniped any more shady?

If I was severely manipulating in the assault phase though I could understand. Some pretty specific rules on how to move models after the dice get rolled.

 Rismonite wrote:

 Thaylen wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
A 'simpler' way is to take 15pt Meks to eat up challenges. Sure you can only take 1 Mek for each HQ choice you have, but a couple of Meks in key squads to take a challenge to the face instead of a Warboss or Nob is very handy.

Not only simpler, this is purely more effective. And less likely to raise eyebrows from your opponents that assault move tactics. And significantly less likely to leave your Nob unable to swing.

I feel dodging challenges by sandbagging the Nob in the movement phase should raise no eyebrows. People bury characters in the middle of units to hide them from shooting why is burying them in the unit to save them from being challenge sniped any more shady?

If I was severely manipulating in the assault phase though I could understand. Some pretty specific rules on how to move models after the dice get rolled.

You would be amazed at how many people don't know how the rules for assault movement work. I have had to go over how to why you can/cannot multicharge something too many times to count. (Multi-charges often require you find constructive ways to limit your models access to the unit you are charging).

From my experience, it's super random on your own charge as the distance is not determined + i2 boyz will have to pile in 3' blocking the way to a nob + if the target is a unit, an opponent may choose to remove the guyz closer to nob so that he won't get to swing even if he piles in.

It's a bit easier vs MC, smaller squads or narrow passes as you can expect a more or less reliable 'challenge avoiding' move on average.

The tactics works better when you are getting charged as it's way easier to position your guyz correctly and all you have to worry about is count the ~ number of boyz that are gona get killed during the opponent's shooting phase.

As said above, use slotless meks if you can. Not that a charge move to avoid challenges is impossible, it's just random. I'd say that it's around 30-50% times when the trick works (you avoid a challenge AND get to swing with the nob) on your own charge move. And around 60-80% when you are getting charged. Purely from my gaming experience.