Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys this question has probably been asked a lot and I've seen some posts on the matter but I am wondering what I personally should choose between the two phoenix, Phoeni?

I like the idea of my phoenix being hot..flames and all, and the fly by burning sounds pretty awesome. My main opponent for the foreseeable future is a friend who I just started this game with (I am a Newby) and he plays Skaven. With many, many, many rats. I think his army justifies a few more "many's" actually but anyways. So the fire attack is good vs his horde formations. I do know, and recognize that the frost phoenix is better in term of stats, which makes it much more survivable - not relaying on a 6 to get back in the fight. I also love that -1 toughness... actually typing this out kind of answers my question but...

I was thinking of throwing an anointed onto my phoenix for now. Magnetising so I can remove it later. As I am just starting out my only lord is the prince on a griffon from IOB - and unlike the griffon the phoenix is much stronger and durable. People say its a waste of points, but I was thinking of getting two phoeni to solve this dilemma. That way I have an extra rare slot open for another bird or Bolt thrower. Also my anointed could boost that resurrection to only failing on a 1, and could increase the chance of resurrection on a 5. If I put an anointed on a phoenix who wants to fly over targets I would give my lord the reaver bow so that he could capitalize on his high BS and pick of some units for my cavalry (the rest of my army is almost pure cavalry, I am trying to create a very fast hard hitting army)


Thanks dakkadakka!

Most people will probably tell you the Frost Phoenix, and frankly, you can't go wrong with a frost phoenix.


The fire phoenix is neat for what it is, and i especially like taking one for gak and giggles against skaven due to the lighting a unit on fire thing, but the frostheart is REALLY good.

It is stronger (6 vs. 5), tougher (6 vs. 5), and it also lowers things its in base contact with strength by 1, so against things in BtB it's effectively T7 in some respects. It also passes out always strikes last to things its in btb with so its lowish initiative isn't really much of an issue.

It does have one less attack than the flame phoenix, but it also has an armor save.

FIre phoenix has fireborn, so its a tank against anything that has flaming attacks (2 up ward vs fire).



If you're going up against Skaven, i'd say its a toss up. Otherwise it's really hard not to recommend the Frostie (even though i do like the flame one too, i just wish it was 15-20 points cheaper, whereas the frostie is costed about right i think). It's an anvil of a monster, and it passes out some really, really awesome support.



In terms of the rider, its been a while since i've assembled mine, so i forget if you can assemble the rider in such a way that the entirety of him is removeable, but if so, then magnetizing him can't hurt.

Speaking of which... i need to get another frostie. LOL

The problem with the Anointed on Fire phoenix is that your t3. Unless your playing with joined profiles (like we do) your dude will just get pulled off. The really cool special ability to bring the dude back is kind of a losing strategy. Why the hell would the guy be removed from play just because his mount is killed! ok cool, he might come back but he shouldnt have been removed to begin with. This rule should have been if the guy dies first the phoenix reanimates him if he comes back.

If I was feeling spicy and took a flameheart (or two) id run them straight into a monster that is right in the battleline. Either you get lucky and kill it or you die and keep burning templates into his line. Thats kind of the frostheart user in me though, im used to just torpedoing them into problem units.

Frostheart = Cheap dragon with utility
Flameheart= Mobile artillery unit

 Haight wrote:
Most people will probably tell you the Frost Phoenix, and frankly, you can't go wrong with a frost phoenix.


The fire phoenix is neat for what it is, and i especially like taking one for gak and giggles against skaven due to the lighting a unit on fire thing, but the frostheart is REALLY good.

It is stronger (6 vs. 5), tougher (6 vs. 5), and it also lowers things its in base contact with strength by 1, so against things in BtB it's effectively T7 in some respects. It also passes out always strikes last to things its in btb with so its lowish initiative isn't really much of an issue.

It does have one less attack than the flame phoenix, but it also has an armor save.

FIre phoenix has fireborn, so its a tank against anything that has flaming attacks (2 up ward vs fire).



If you're going up against Skaven, i'd say its a toss up. Otherwise it's really hard not to recommend the Frostie (even though i do like the flame one too, i just wish it was 15-20 points cheaper, whereas the frostie is costed about right i think). It's an anvil of a monster, and it passes out some really, really awesome support.



In terms of the rider, its been a while since i've assembled mine, so i forget if you can assemble the rider in such a way that the entirety of him is removeable, but if so, then magnetizing him can't hurt.

Speaking of which... i need to get another frostie. LOL

The Flamespyre has 3 attacks, the Frostheart has 4.

Extremely disappointed that this thread is not about some kind of catapult that can throw either flaming or frozen chickens.

 toasteroven wrote:
Extremely disappointed that this thread is not about some kind of catapult that can throw either flaming or frozen chickens.

You are right it should be!

The loss of an anointed is dangerous i agree. Hmm decesions. I think the ice pheonix is the more solid choice (ha!) But my heart burns for fire. The S6 is much needed in my army (pseudo s7) since my friend runs rampant screaming bell and doom wheel lists. Nothing in my army has been able to dent it yet.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Haight wrote:
Most people will probably tell you the Frost Phoenix, and frankly, you can't go wrong with a frost phoenix.


The fire phoenix is neat for what it is, and i especially like taking one for gak and giggles against skaven due to the lighting a unit on fire thing, but the frostheart is REALLY good.

It is stronger (6 vs. 5), tougher (6 vs. 5), and it also lowers things its in base contact with strength by 1, so against things in BtB it's effectively T7 in some respects. It also passes out always strikes last to things its in btb with so its lowish initiative isn't really much of an issue.

It does have one less attack than the flame phoenix, but it also has an armor save.

FIre phoenix has fireborn, so its a tank against anything that has flaming attacks (2 up ward vs fire).



If you're going up against Skaven, i'd say its a toss up. Otherwise it's really hard not to recommend the Frostie (even though i do like the flame one too, i just wish it was 15-20 points cheaper, whereas the frostie is costed about right i think). It's an anvil of a monster, and it passes out some really, really awesome support.



In terms of the rider, its been a while since i've assembled mine, so i forget if you can assemble the rider in such a way that the entirety of him is removeable, but if so, then magnetizing him can't hurt.

Speaking of which... i need to get another frostie. LOL

The Flamespyre has 3 attacks, the Frostheart has 4.

Correct ! Man... all this time, i've been screwing my Frostie.

Flamespyre due to the fact that it has Wake of Fire and, IMO, is a cooler model.

 Haight wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Haight wrote:
Most people will probably tell you the Frost Phoenix, and frankly, you can't go wrong with a frost phoenix.


The fire phoenix is neat for what it is, and i especially like taking one for gak and giggles against skaven due to the lighting a unit on fire thing, but the frostheart is REALLY good.

It is stronger (6 vs. 5), tougher (6 vs. 5), and it also lowers things its in base contact with strength by 1, so against things in BtB it's effectively T7 in some respects. It also passes out always strikes last to things its in btb with so its lowish initiative isn't really much of an issue.

It does have one less attack than the flame phoenix, but it also has an armor save.

FIre phoenix has fireborn, so its a tank against anything that has flaming attacks (2 up ward vs fire).



If you're going up against Skaven, i'd say its a toss up. Otherwise it's really hard not to recommend the Frostie (even though i do like the flame one too, i just wish it was 15-20 points cheaper, whereas the frostie is costed about right i think). It's an anvil of a monster, and it passes out some really, really awesome support.



In terms of the rider, its been a while since i've assembled mine, so i forget if you can assemble the rider in such a way that the entirety of him is removeable, but if so, then magnetizing him can't hurt.

Speaking of which... i need to get another frostie. LOL

The Flamespyre has 3 attacks, the Frostheart has 4.

Correct ! Man... all this time, i've been screwing my Frostie.

And Ashtari has 5.

Stupid forgetting that I have 5 attacks and losing to static res...

Yah, Ashari is a beast. You pay for it, but a beast. I've always loved Caradryan (both in fluff and rules), so i don't mind.


Anywho... fun fact ! End times magic makes the phoenix' "weakness" thing much less likely to result in something negative.

If you're rolling 4d6 for power dice instead of 2d6 the chances that the highest die rolled is a 1 or 2 is a LOT smaller, which means your chances for getting SOME kind of positive bonus goes way, way up. So there's that too. I know it's kind of obivous, but its one of those subtle things that might not immediately stick out to people.

Yet another reason why Elves made out like bandits in End Times.


EDIT: Spelling the birds name.

 Haight wrote:
Yah, Ashari is a beast. You pay for it, but a beast. I've always loved Caradryan (both in fluff and rules), so i don't mind.


Anywho... fun fact ! End times magic makes the phoenix' "weakness" thing much less likely to result in something negative.

If you're rolling 4d6 for power dice instead of 2d6 the chances that the highest die rolled is a 1 or 2 is a LOT smaller, which means your chances for getting SOME kind of positive bonus goes way, way up. So there's that too. I know it's kind of obivous, but its one of those subtle things that might not immediately stick out to people.

Yet another reason why Elves made out like bandits in End Times.


EDIT: Spelling the birds name.

That is good to know.

I have a modeling question about the frost pheonix. (Magnetized the base of the throne so i can swap rider for no rider) but its about the flight stand.. do i have to glue it to my pheonix or is there a balancing act i haven't quite discovered? I do not want to glue because i find those stands break so easily. At the same time i dont want to risk damaging my model whenever it is on the table top. Would sticky tac work? If so ill go out and buy some.

Shaso_Keo wrote:

 Haight wrote:
Yah, Ashari is a beast. You pay for it, but a beast. I've always loved Caradryan (both in fluff and rules), so i don't mind.


Anywho... fun fact ! End times magic makes the phoenix' "weakness" thing much less likely to result in something negative.

If you're rolling 4d6 for power dice instead of 2d6 the chances that the highest die rolled is a 1 or 2 is a LOT smaller, which means your chances for getting SOME kind of positive bonus goes way, way up. So there's that too. I know it's kind of obivous, but its one of those subtle things that might not immediately stick out to people.

Yet another reason why Elves made out like bandits in End Times.


EDIT: Spelling the birds name.

That is good to know.

I have a modeling question about the frost pheonix. (Magnetized the base of the throne so i can swap rider for no rider) but its about the flight stand.. do i have to glue it to my pheonix or is there a balancing act i haven't quite discovered? I do not want to glue because i find those stands break so easily. At the same time i dont want to risk damaging my model whenever it is on the table top. Would sticky tac work? If so ill go out and buy some.

Blu-tac.

Flame comboes better with both Anointed and the Reaver Bow. With Frost you're wasting the bow or combat ability, and handles itself well enough that the Anointed is redundant.

Cauthon wrote:The problem with the Anointed on Fire phoenix is that your t3. Unless your playing with joined profiles (like we do) your dude will just get pulled off.

Silvered Steel (or Helm of Discord), Dawnstone. Probably the toughest Elf there is!

Haight wrote:

In terms of the rider, its been a while since i've assembled mine, so i forget if you can assemble the rider in such a way that the entirety of him is removeable,

It's possible, he's on a chair!

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Shaso_Keo wrote:

 Haight wrote:
Yah, Ashari is a beast. You pay for it, but a beast. I've always loved Caradryan (both in fluff and rules), so i don't mind.


Anywho... fun fact ! End times magic makes the phoenix' "weakness" thing much less likely to result in something negative.

If you're rolling 4d6 for power dice instead of 2d6 the chances that the highest die rolled is a 1 or 2 is a LOT smaller, which means your chances for getting SOME kind of positive bonus goes way, way up. So there's that too. I know it's kind of obivous, but its one of those subtle things that might not immediately stick out to people.

Yet another reason why Elves made out like bandits in End Times.


EDIT: Spelling the birds name.

That is good to know.

I have a modeling question about the frost pheonix. (Magnetized the base of the throne so i can swap rider for no rider) but its about the flight stand.. do i have to glue it to my pheonix or is there a balancing act i haven't quite discovered? I do not want to glue because i find those stands break so easily. At the same time i dont want to risk damaging my model whenever it is on the table top. Would sticky tac work? If so ill go out and buy some.

Blu-tac.

Thanks to you both, as i have this same issue. I was just getting ready to re kit it with threaded rod that will screw and unscrew, but it was a pain in the dick finding hardware to do the job. If i can avoid it, i'd prefer to.