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A few days ago I decided to maybe start up 40k again, because I saw one of the eldar grav tanks again and remain in love with them. So, I decided to work out a little list based on that. Unfortunately it seems that the eldar happen to have some quite overpowered units in that regard, so I decided to post the list that I have so far here. Please tell me if it is utterly overpowered or if there are things that are really missing from it.

HQ
Farseer, spirit stone. 115

TROOPS
5 Dire avengers. 65
Wave Serpent, scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, ghostwalk matrix, holo-fields, vectored engines. 170

5 Dire avengers. 65
Wave Serpent, scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, ghostwalk matrix, holo-fields, vectored engines. 170

5 Dire avengers. 65
Wave Serpent, scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, ghostwalk matrix, holo-fields, vectored engines. 170

FAST ATTACK
Crimson Hunter 160

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon, Shuriken Cannon, Bright Lance, Ghostwalk Matrix, Holo-fields, spirit stones. 180

Fire Prism, Shuriken Cannon, Ghostwalk Matrix, Holo-fields, spirit stones. 170

Fire Prism, Shuriken Cannon, Ghostwalk Matrix, Holo-fields, spirit stones. 170

I wouldn't bother with vectored engines of the GWM on the Serpents. I wouldn't bother with the Falcon at all. It is a poor tank compared to the Serpent. Nor would I bother with the Spirit Stone unless you plan on summoning. That gives 270 points.

Get some Fire Dragons in a Serpent with SL & HFs for 245 points. Which leaves enough to get a spear on the Farseer and Exarch upgrade on the Hunter. The Hunter is very fragile so you need it to kill what it shoots and Bs5 makes a big difference to that.

Is the Falcon that bad? I love the model but if it's useless I might as well leave it out. I decided on giving the Serpents a few more upgrades that aren't perfectly useful because I read that they are overpowered, but I can take out the vectored engines. I prefer to keep the GWM to make them a bit more expensive, and to be able to put them into safer places. I hate dice rolls messing up my plans, so I think that they might still be useful, and I don't want to receive the tar and feather treatment when I play.

I must confess that I never tried Fire Dragons when I still played, but I might give them a try. Do they work very well currenly?

In a world with Imperial Knights having a unit of Fire Dragons is essentially mandatory. These days it can even be worth having more than a Minimum sized unit.

Unfortunately the Falcon is not near as good as the Serpent nor does it really bring much different to the table (unlike the Fire Prism). Always get more Serpents over Falcons. Serpents are very good but not as all conquering as the internet likes to make out particularly if you're playing Maelstrom (which you should it's brilliant).

Falcons trash, get another serpent (with removal of GWM).
Basically what Fling it said

I think the Falcon’s main problem is not that it sucks, but that there are MUCH better things to do with both the points and the HS slots.

When the falcon first came out, I fell in love with them myself. Sleek, deadly, grav-tanks. It’s a shame they are in limbo right now, with no real place in the army. The only thing they do better then their peers is intentionally sandbag your army list. You get to have your grav armor, and say “I’m not completely spamming WS's

Get another Fire Prism or a Warp Hunter to throw in some variety.

If you drop the holofields on serpents (I find them redundant for the points) and drop the falcon and replace it for a squad of Scatter laser war walkers... throw your farseer on a jet bike and give him a spear. then try to work in a wave serpent with dragons. with a list like this a ground pounding farseer is just too slow.. but with that upgrade he can now be a 2ndary tank hunter if needed.

I like your list, OP. It's varied from the standard form of 'Serpent Spam', and while it is a good and powerful list, it is not overpowered, IMO.

Have you been to your local game store yet, to see what other players in your area are running?

I find I don't usually go for the Ghostwalk Matrix, though I do always opt for Spirit Stones in my own Eldar lists. I like being able to shoot more often.
I can understand why you might want the Matrices on your Serpents, as it looks like the Serpents will be the ones going out and capturing objectives. But I don't think you need the Matrices on the Prisms and Falcon, as I'd think you would usually be keeping them back in your own zone, where you can often find good spots behind cover without actually having to enter difficult terrain.

I have to agree with the others regarding the Farseer. The Serpent has no firepoints, so he won't be casting anything while inside, and if he disembarks as he is now, he's an easy kill (and Slay the Warlord point). So, I'd recommend either giving him a jetbike (so he can Jink and survive longer) and maybe a Mantle of the Laughing God if you really want to beef him up (though it might be called cheesy), or else run a cheaper barebones HQ, like a Spiritseer.

OP - I dig your list, I'm going to be running almost something exactly like it. The other's suggestion of fire dragons is really something I'd take into account. Fire dragons annihilate anything they shoot at (every model with a melta gun, what's not to like?). I will respectfully disagree with them on the falcon though. It's the perfect backfield holder. Pulse laser is a solid 2 shots at s8ap2. Throw a scatter laser on the other side to laser lock it and now it's twin-linked with the shuriken cannon you have slung underneath. I'd put your 5 man dire avengers in here and then put a squad of dragons in an open serpent, maybe 2 squads worth.

I also would recommend warp spiders. They move like lightning and hit like a truck. Monofiliment and +1s against slow stuff and vehicles will make av10-11 cry. I'm with the others as well that this list is balanced. Spamming serpents (4+ IMO) is cheese and gets to be more of a "ok here's my 8 serpents, try to kill them all" kind of a play style. No fun to play or play against. Hope I helped a touch.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
OP - I dig your list, I'm going to be running almost something exactly like it. The other's suggestion of fire dragons is really something I'd take into account. Fire dragons annihilate anything they shoot at (every model with a melta gun, what's not to like?). I will respectfully disagree with them on the falcon though. It's the perfect backfield holder. Pulse laser is a solid 2 shots at s8ap2. Throw a scatter laser on the other side to laser lock it and now it's twin-linked with the shuriken cannon you have slung underneath. I'd put your 5 man dire avengers in here and then put a squad of dragons in an open serpent, maybe 2 squads worth.

I also would recommend warp spiders. They move like lightning and hit like a truck. Monofiliment and +1s against slow stuff and vehicles will make av10-11 cry. I'm with the others as well that this list is balanced. Spamming serpents (4+ IMO) is cheese and gets to be more of a "ok here's my 8 serpents, try to kill them all" kind of a play style. No fun to play or play against. Hope I helped a touch.

Lets compare.
Wave serpent=W Falcon=F
Transport capacity: W:12, F=6
Armor: W:12 (with option for protective shield) F:12
Speed: Same
Cost: W:cheaper
W doesnt take up any space in an army list, while the F takes up the valuable heavy support.
Damage:
Vs av 11-12, Ws wins. Vs av 13-14, falcon wins (although the falcon is absolute GARBAGE at it)
Vs teqs wave serpents do better.
Vs meqs wave serpent wins by a landslide
Vs low armored high body count squads, wave serpent wins with no contest.
Vs units with stealth+/shrouded, wave serpent wins.
Vs Fliers, wave serpent wins
Vs In a wave serpent vs falcon match, wave serpent wins.

The ONLY one place the falcon actually does significantly better at is vs multi wound T4 models. And those are quite rare.

So yeah. Cleeaaarr winner is the wave serpent.

And you are exactly why I got off of forums. Thanks for making my stay here on dakkadakka the shortest in history. Read the OP and see he doesn't want to make a "serious tournament list" and actually give him some advice that doesn't involve telling him everything he came up with is wrong.

If you want to "un-power" your list - simply change some (if not all) Avengers in Serpents for Guardians with Platforms - for example, swap one set of DA+Serpent for 10 Guardians with Scatter laser, it will surely dumb down OP ratio and still will be able to do.. something.

Second thing, mix HS to one Fire Prism and two Falcons, because 2 FP's are overkill even on competetive. Rest can stay unless you want to power down even further.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
And you are exactly why I got off of forums. Thanks for making my stay here on dakkadakka the shortest in history. Read the OP and see he doesn't want to make a "serious tournament list" and actually give him some advice that doesn't involve telling him everything he came up with is wrong.

And these are the posts that make me stay on the forums. People like this need to realize that 40k is a very cooky cutter game, and some units are better than others. If you want to take a unit that is in every way shape and form worse than another, go for it. But make it abundantly clear that you are doing so on purpose.
If you are playing with friends, than go for it. Sometimes its better to lose on purpose and have fun doing so.

But dont get angry at me for informing you on how to build better lists.