How Desperate For Cash Are GW?

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**JP1138**

I recently ordered some items online (Night Goblin boss and latest White Dwarf) but the next day found out these had already been purchased for me by my fiancee. I contacted GW to cancel the order but they had already been despatched. We agreed I would take them into Warhammer World when they arrived and get a full refund. When the box arrived a few days later I got in the car and drove to HQ and returned the items.

The member of staff sorted this out, opened the box and checked the items and then contacted customer service to arrange the refund. When I got home the cash for the items had been refunded back to my PayPal account but not the shipping. I sent them an email and got this response this morning:

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately we cannot refund the shipping, as the shipping cost is in place to pay for the cost of shipping the item out to you.

We are always willing to refund items if they come back to us unopened etc, but we cannot refund shipping.

If you have any other questions or issues, please do ask.

Calling shenanigans on this as no other company I know of or have used has this sort of bass-ackward policy I checked their terms and conditions as linked in Sophie's email and found this:

8.3 When you cancel a contract under condition 8.1, we will process the refund due to you no later than within 14 days of receipt of the relevant Products back from you. We will refund the price of the Product in full, including the cost of sending the item to you.

Note the bolded area: it clearly states they refund shipping.

Are GW so desperate for cash that they are willing to openly lie to their customers? I don't normally nerd-rage on the internet but this has really angered me. I worked for GW for ten years between 89-00 and this sort of money grabbing tactic has left a very sour taste. The sooner someone takes GW out back and puts a bolter shell through their head the better.

The Distance Selling Act was abolished in June 2014 and the Consumer Contracts Regulations imposed. In here it also clearly states that online sellers have to refund delivery costs

Refunding the cost of delivery The trader has to refund the basic delivery cost of getting the goods to you in the first place, so if you opted for enhanced service eg guaranteed next day, it only has to refund the basic cost.

Has anyone else had this problem?

**Howard A Treesong**

I suggest contacting them again with what you have here. If they still refuse contact trading standards. That usually gets a satisfactory response.

**JP1138**

I have sent them another email with this information but felt compelled to nerd-rage. It's cathartic

**monders**

I'd never normally expect the cost of postage to be refunded. I had to return some RAM last year, and got a full refund on the product but not the shipping.

Good spot though, JP! I love a good complaint more than anyone, so this has cheered me right up whilst getting my back up too!

I'd give them a call and say that you looked into their T&Cs as supplied by their rep, and you discovered that they may have been mistaken and that actually, you DO refund postage... so cough up.

**JP1138**

This is a personal purchase not a trade sale just for clarity.

**winterdyne**

That's naughty. Any return of unused product for refund in full has to include the basic shipping cost.

**notprop**

It's bit obsurd to complain about them wanting to charge for postage when the did in fact post it to you.

Should have manned up and told the Mrs she missed the boat.

This might be their policy but if you really want to peruse this then the Distance Selling regulations usually dictate a full refund but this may be faulty goods. Best check.

**JP1138**

Distance Selling Regulations were abolished in June 2014. The new regs as well as Games Workshops own T&C clearly state shipping is refunded.

As I pointed out in my first post.

If their t&csaid they don’t refund, then no problem. But they say they do.

So problem.

I don't usually get this annoyed and find these sorts of.posts on the interwebby amusing - it's £3.50 for gods sake! - but its the principle of the issue.

**StraightSilver**

I'm sorry but in this instance GW were under no obligation to refund you at all unless the items were mis-sold or were faulty when they arrived.

The terms and conditions regarding postage refunds applies to statutory refunds, where goods are either faulty, damaged or mis-sold.

Goods bought in error does not entitle you to a refund or replacement of goods but in this case GW gave you a discretionary refund, which is good customer service.

However they aren't obliged to refund you the postage costs and in fact most retailers would expect you to post the items back at your own expense so to be fair I don't really see the issue here?

You can fault GW on a lot of things but not their customer service and most definitely not their refund and exchange policy which is one of the most liberal in the UK.

**JP1138**

Not quite accurate. There is a 14 day cooling off period during which you can cancel at any time for any reason, and which they are legally obliged to refund in full including shipping costs. Its in their own terms and conditions.

Read them for yourself.

8 Cancellations and Returns
8.1 We hope that you will be happy with all Products purchased from the Website, however, if you are not, subject to condition 8.4, you may cancel a Contract at any time and for any reason within fourteen working days, beginning on the day after you receive the Products (Cooling-Off Period). Should you wish to do this you will receive a full refund of the price paid for the Products as described in condition 8.3.
8.2 To cancel a Contract you must send us written notice, to be received by us during the Cooling-Off Period, by email or by post containing your name, address, and product order details (order number, Products ordered, and date of order). Our contact details can be found here. Please note that email is our preferred form of communication, and we will be able to process your cancellation quicker if you notify us by email. You must keep the Products in your possession and take reasonable care of them. In addition, you must return the Products to us as soon as possible at your cost and risk, in the same condition in which you received them. We suggest that you do this using a registered delivery service to reduce the risk of the Products not reaching us. If you fail to take reasonable care of the Products before returning the Products to us, or fail to take reasonable care to ensure that we receive the Products and that they are not damaged in transit, we may take legal proceedings to recover any damages, costs or other expenses which we incur as a result.
8.3 When you cancel a contract under condition 8.1, we will process the refund due to you no later than within 14 days of receipt of the relevant Products back from you. We will refund the price of the Product in full, including the cost of sending the item to you.
8.4 You will not have a right to cancel a contract under condition 8.1 where:
8.4.1 the Products forming the contract are Downloads (as defined under condition 10) such as audio books, ebooks, magazines or periodicals (on the basis that the contract has been performed with your consent); and
8.4.2 the Product forming the contract is made to order or otherwise tailored to your specification.
8.5 Products returned by you because of a defect (and not a cancellation under condition 8.1) will be examined by us. Where evidence of a defect is found we will notify you of your entitlement to (at your option) (i) a replacement Product, or (ii) a refund for the defective Product. Where a refund is requested, we will process the refund due to you (including a refund of the delivery charges for sending the item to you and the cost incurred by you in returning the item to us) as soon as possible and, in any case, within 30 days of the day we confirmed to you that you were entitled to a refund for the defective Product.
8.6 We will usually refund any money received from you by using the same method originally used by you to pay for your purchase.
8.7 Save as precluded by law, we will not be liable to you for any indirect or consequential loss, damage or expenses (including loss of profits, business or goodwill) howsoever arising out of, or in connection with, any defect with a Product, and we shall have no liability to pay any money to you by way of compensation other than to refund to you the amount paid by you for the Product in question.
8.8 Nothing in these conditions is intended to limit any rights you might have as a consumer under applicable local law or other statutory rights that may not be excluded nor in any way to exclude or limit our liability to you for any death or personal injury resulting from our negligence or fraud.

**StraightSilver**

8.7 over rules 8.3 though, as the products were not faulty, which means they are under no obligation to refund the postage as the goods had already been despatched.

However unfortunately that is confusing for consumers but as I say this was a discretionary refund as opposed to a statuary one in which case 8.3 would apply.

**JP1138**

I am clearly within the 14 day cooling off period and so am entitled to all the money back. Plus in the original email I was told I would get a full refund.

It is very stupid to get so worked up over such a trivial amount I fully acknowledge that, but it really is the principle. Anyway Ive had my vent and feel somewhat better. Thanks for tolerating the nerd-rage.

Will let you know what happens.

**PhantomViper**

StraightSilver wrote:
8.7 over rules 8.3 though, as the products were not faulty, which means they are under no obligation to refund the postage as the goods had already been despatched.

However unfortunately that is confusing for consumers but as I say this was a discretionary refund as opposed to a statuary one in which case 8.3 would apply.

You are wrong, 8.7 is only applicable to extraneous compensations other than the cost of the product it doesn't apply to postage costs.

Also, if GW's own regulations aren't enough, general law also requires them to refund postage costs:

What should you get back?
The original cost of the outbound postage to you should always be refunded by the seller.
The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item.
If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost.
In this case, you're entitled to a refund of the total amount you paid, including costs to ship the item to you, and the fee to return the item. No admin or restocking fees should be charged.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations

**StraightSilver**

Don't get me wrong, I can fully see why you would want the postage refunded and if they did put it in the email then they probably should have (and to be honest probably will) refund it.

My point is that they aren't obligated to, and most retailers would probably argue against refunding you at all, as they would see goods duplicated by consumer to be none of their concern, even if done in error.

I worked in retail for almost 20 years so I know how varied refund policies can be but i have never had a fault with GW's, but they are very good with customer service and if they feel you are not happy I am sure they will refund it.

**Davylove21**

Unless precluded by law, which it is. It's in the rules of Britain, which overrule GW

EDIT: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations Evidence. Very, very simple rules there. If within 14 days, they have to refund you if you cancel for any reason and must cover basic cost of delivery too.

**StraightSilver**

Phantomviper that only applies to statutory refunds, which this is not.

No retailer is under any obligation to refund or even exchange items bought in error, only if it can be proven the buyer was either mis-sold or coerced into buying.

Your statutory rights in the UK apply to items that were either damaged or mis-sold which in this case they were not.

No retailer should be out of pocket because somebody changed their mind.

As somebody that processed refunds daily for one of the UK's largest retail chains this was something i dealt with on a daily basis. Unfortunately so many people in the UK abuse the refund system (not saying for a second that's what the OP is doing though) that retailers have to be very wary of issuing refunds, and few now offer discretionary refunds of any sort.

**Brennonjw**

they have refunded my shipping multiple times, I think the person you got was a rare case, either that or I have been lucky multiple times

**PhantomViper**

StraightSilver wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I can fully see why you would want the postage refunded and if they did put it in the email then they probably should have (and to be honest probably will) refund it.

My point is that they aren't obligated to, and most retailers would probably argue against refunding you at all, as they would see goods duplicated by consumer to be none of their concern, even if done in error.

I worked in retail for almost 20 years so I know how varied refund policies can be but i have never had a fault with GW's, but they are very good with customer service and if they feel you are not happy I am sure they will refund it.

Every consumer has a grace period after every purchase where they can return goods that they have acquired for any reason that they see fit, the goods don't need to be damaged at all.

**StraightSilver**

OK, I must eat humble pie so apologies, please disregard my posts.

I wasn't aware of that legislation from June 2014 in the link above (no longer work in retail) so in fact the OP is correct, he is entitled to the postage refund, and I am surprised GW isn't aware of this. That is quite a big change.

**JP1138**

EDIT: see StraightSilvers post above.

All good

**PhantomViper**

No problem.

**JP1138**

Would be interesting to see how many people aren't aware of the change and haven't gotten postage refunds.

**monders**

Have YOU missed OUT on a POSTAGE Refund?!

Call NOW - No Win No Fee (There will be a fee).

0870 700 700 700!

**JP1138**

That made me chuckle Monders. Have an exalt!

**lord_blackfang**

Wow, so in the UK anyone can basically legally bankrupt a company by repeatedly ordering whatever amount of product and getting a full refund, sticking the company with shipping costs?

**Mymearan**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Wow, so in the UK anyone can basically legally bankrupt a company by repeatedly ordering whatever amount of product and getting a full refund, sticking the company with shipping costs?

Same here in Sweden, might be a EU thing?

**PhantomViper**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Wow, so in the UK anyone can basically legally bankrupt a company by repeatedly ordering whatever amount of product and getting a full refund, sticking the company with shipping costs?

Not only in the UK, AFAIK that law is the result of a communitarian directive so its probably the same in all the countries in the EU (I know that in mine its the same).

Also, the company only has to refund the cost of shipping the product to you, the customer has the pay the costs for shipping the product back to the company so if someone plans to use this to bankrupt a company, they will probably bankrupt themselves first...

**Runic**

You order their miniatures and apparently the magazine, yet you want said company to cease to exist simultaneously?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

PhantomViper wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Wow, so in the UK anyone can basically legally bankrupt a company by repeatedly ordering whatever amount of product and getting a full refund, sticking the company with shipping costs?

Not only in the UK, AFAIK that law is the result of a communitarian directive so its probably the same in all the countries in the EU (I know that in mine its the same).

Also, the company only has to refund the cost of shipping the product to you, the customer has the pay the costs for shipping the product back to the company so if someone plans to use this to bankrupt a company, they will probably bankrupt themselves first...

absolutely,

also a company does not have to sell to you so if a customer uses the 'I don't want it now' get out too often they'd be able to just terminate their account

**gianlucafiorentini123**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Wow, so in the UK anyone can basically legally bankrupt a company by repeatedly ordering whatever amount of product and getting a full refund, sticking the company with shipping costs?

That's what I was thinking, actually seems quite unfair.