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Hi everyone,
something I was pondering in my list was either 5 man tacticals in a las/plas razorback or 10man units in a rhino, what do you guys think?
And do you think that sniper scouts could be useful as I'm torn on that too.
Thanks

I feel that 10 man units in Rhinos are a waste for BA. I'd use 5 man squads in razors or 5 man in drop pods. Sniper scouts and HTH scouts are also viable, I think.

I was also thinking that, but do you think it will have enough staying power.
And sorry for being a noob, but does the fact that every unit can score mean that they can claim objectives?
Thanks.

If you use the Baal strikeforce, your troops don't have objective secured anyway. All units "score" in 7th. Obj sec troops "super score" and trump regular units. Unfortunately, troops have a tendency to be garbage, especially for BA. We can't even get biker troops.

So does that mean that only troop choices can claim an objective as it was back in 5th?

No. Any unit can claim objectives. If a troop with "objective secured" comes along, it trumps a regular unit for objective claiming. But that assumes your troops aren't massacred.

Thanks for clarifying that, I'm still a noob really lol.


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What are your opinions on if the 5man units are survivable enough, and how many would you recommend to take?

Here's my experience in 7th: nothing is survivable except for a few unit types. And the BA don't have many of them.

How many 5man units in razors do you, or would you, take in a list?

My 1850 list has two; the minimum. Between the two squads, they have a maximum one-turn potential of 12 plasma shots and two lascannon shots.

I was considering taking at least 3 or 4 in las/plas razors and I was considering 2x 5man sniper scouts (what would you say is the best setup for them?). Do you think this would be effective? Can I ask why you think the 10man units are not worthwhile as I am torn more towards the msu anyway, but it would be interesting to hear your pov.

Well, MSU limit how much you can lose to a single volley of fire, and they can be in two places at once.

If you aren't using a formation with obj sec, there is no reason to use so many troops.

Depends on what you're fighting. Most of the time ten-man squads are better for BA specifically because it lets the Sanguiniary Priests cover more guys.

I'm not using Sanguinary priests at the moment, myself. I think psykers are better. Even if I were, tactical squads would not be getting SP anyway.

I am using a priest, but it is going with dante and sang guard.
I like the shooting potential from msu but the staying power of 10man squads, thats my current dilemna.
What would you say the best way to run scouts is if they are worthwhile?
Amd Martel can I also ask what your preferred setup is?


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For the tacs

10 man squads, ime, just lose more models when the Riptide shoots them.

I think scouts are actually pretty good as infiltrating HTH threats or as snipers. Putting wounds on MCs is priceless, imo.

Thats what I would use them for too.
Im considering 2squads with plasma, combi plasma and one with meltagun and combi melta.

That sounds pretty good.

Thanks.
Im trying to add shooting potential to support my assault units and hold obj.

If I copy my list, would you mind helping me to change some things to make it more effective?
Thanks.

Sure.

(2188pts so I would have to remove either the predator or dreadnought)

Baal Strikeforce Detachment

LoW
Commander Dante- 220

HQ
Sanguinary Priest
Angels Wing, Valours Edge
-105

Troops

2x Tactical Squad
5man
Plasma gun, sergeant with Combi-Plasma
-190

In Razorbacks
Las/Plas
-170

Tactical Squad
5man
Meltagun, sergeant with Combi-Melta
-90

In a Razorback
Las/Plas
-85

2xScout Squad
5man
Camo Cloaks, Sniper Rifles (x4), Sergeant with melta bombs
-148
(Should I use a missile launcher or heavy bolter? Thats the reason I have only include 4 snipers. And should I get a veteran sergeant for the 4bs?)
Elites

Sanguinary Guard
5 man
Chapter Banner, Power Fist, Infernus Pistol
-205

Death Company
10man
Jump Pack, 2 Power Weapons, Power Fist
-285

Furioso Dreadnought
Frag Cannon, Magna Grapple and Heavy Flamer
-140

Heavy Support

2x Stormravens
Assault Cannon, Multi Melta
-400

Predator
Overcharged Engines, Lascnnon Sponsons, Twin Linked Lascannon
-150


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What do you think?

I saw a really interesting video on youtube which highlighted the things needed to make a good TAC list (my aim).

Here they are: (meant to be at least 3 units for each)

Terminators and equivalents (2+ armour, 3/5+ invul)
AV14
Hordes (15-30, low save models)
Flyers
Monstrous Creatures
MEQ- Space marine and equivalens (models with a 3+ save)
Models that can easily get first blood
Linebreaker
6 Objectives at most
Slay the warlord


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How do you think my list fares according to this?
Thanks in advance!


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I have been thinking of a slightly different list (Although it only has 2 elites when I want 3 or 4)

Baal Strikeforce

LoW

Commander Dante
220

HQ

Sanguinary Priest
Angels wings, valours edge
105

Elites

Sanguinary Guard
5man
Chapter Banner, Infernus pistol, power fist
205

Death Company
10man
Jump packs, 2 Power Weapons, Power Fist
285

Troops

2x Tactical Squad
5man
Plasma Guns, Sergeant with combi-plasma
190

In razorbacks
las/plas
170

2x Scout Squad
5man
Camo cloaks, 4 sniper rifles, heavy bolter with hellfire shells
164

Fast Attack

Assault Squad
10man
2 Plasma Guns, Sergeant with Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol
230

Heavy Support

2x Stormraven Gunships
Assault Cannons (1 with lascannon?), Multi Melta
400

Predator
Overcharged Engines, Lascannon sponsons, twin-linked lascannon
150

This is 119 points over.
Is it better than the previous?

I guess I could remove a tactical squad and a razorback to save the point on the first list, that would save me points and money!
Do you think that would be a good idea?

I don't think those Scouts are necessary. If I'm using Scouts, I'm using Shotguns, a Melta Bomb, and a Speeder. Works soundly.

I originally didnt want to use scouts, but I asked how to create an effective shooting backline, which I saw the snipers being most effective (they can cover monstrous creatures)


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what do you think of the lists?
In hindsight I dont like the second one as much as the first.

Yeah the first one seem's best. I feel you have too many DC and not enough SG even with Dante and the priest in there.

Scout's are probably the best way to go for holding objective's on your own table side and for that role 5 man cloaked sniper squad's are again probably best.

As for the main question, for me, it depend's on what you want to do with them. I have 2 10 man Tac's in my pod's with anti-infantry weapon's, usually flamer's or plasma, and having more bolter's supporting them always' add's to the weight of fire and bodies all at once. 5 man squad's will take at best 1-2 unit's to remove. A 10 man unit will take 3-4 and that's why in this role i believe 10 is best to take as it's harder for the enemy to remove them easily. I also have 2 like you in RB's with plasma and melta and i tend not to use the BSF with them to keep ObjSec for fast moving point taker's. So in this role 5's fine. ASM on the other hand seem to be either 5 in suicide pod's or 10ish with JP's. Again the 5 won't last but in this role they've hopefully already killed what they needed to anyway. 10 with JP's will more than likely be able to contribute a bit more over the course of the game. So again it's really determined by the job you want doing. Although in general I will rarely use just 5 man squad's of any marine type.

Devastator's? It's 10 if you have 4 HB's and 5 for ML's, PC's, MM's and LC's IMHO. Although it's probably only people like me who would probably even consider as BA dev squad.