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I´m obviously talking about assault marines with melta in pods. Please avoid discussing how efficient meltacides are over other AT units, this thread is just about loadout.

Which do you think is the optimal loadout when it comes to reliably cracking armor (mostly AV13 and14) at minimal cost:

1) ASMx5 w/ 2 meltaguns 105
2) ASMx5 w/ 2 meltaguns, sarge combi-melta 115
3) ASMx5 w/ 2 meltaguns, sarge combi-melta and melta bombs 120
4) ASMx5 w/ 2 meltaguns, sarge with 2 infernus pistols 135
5) ASMx5 w/ 2 meltaguns, sarge with 2 infernus pistols and m-b 140

I like 3) the most, thoughts? thx in advance

I believe that each melta only has a .1 chance of exploding an AV14 vehicle, so your best bet to reiably do so is going to be the 2 meltas, combi melta and melta bombs. anything short of that the odds arent in your favour.

Each shot has .66 chance of hitting
I work out .5 chance of penning AV14
And then each pen has .33 chance of exploding

Expanding on Melcavuk and using the Battlescribe dice tools, 3 meltaguns have about a 13% chance of blowing up the LR outright. To approach a 100% chance at destruction, either by stripping hull points or blowing up through rolls on the damage table you need to look at having 7 to 8 melta attacks in one turn.

For reliability I like 4 simply because its one more chance at that explodes result the turn you come in. If you pod them in, you have a really good shot at getting thr Sarge back in melta range barring an absolutely horrendous scatter whereas that meltabomb can't be used until your next turn after deep striking in/disembarking transport. Footslogging them, even with jump packs, is just asking to give up a kill point since they will definitely be a priority with that much potential firepower.

Alright. Well "reliably" was too much of a word in this case.

In other words, would you spend 10-15 more points on infernus pistols/m-b, or 2mg+combi+m-b would be fine for the points?

6" range in practice is actually pretty hard to use.

Martel732 wrote:
6" range in practice is actually pretty hard to use.

3" for Melta is even worse. Inferno Pistols, sadly, just aren't worth their points. If they were 5 points, maybe.

I think in a pod they work, but I definitely gave up using them on Seraphim, who don't have that option. The downside is that once the pod drops you don't have much in the way of mobility.

They don't work in a pod if your opponent is paying attention at all. You need using the inferno pistol on a fire warrior or a tactical marine, and then dying.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
6" range in practice is actually pretty hard to use.

3" for Melta is even worse. Inferno Pistols, sadly, just aren't worth their points. If they were 5 points, maybe.

This. The only good thing about Inferno Pistols is that they make Plasma Pistols worth their points (but don't be fooled, it's just an illusion).

I like the Melta,Melta, combi-melta for drop assault troops.

If podding take enough pods so that you can opt to drop anti-infantry rather than anti-tank to remove bubble wrap. I would suggest either a tac squad kitted out with lots of flamers or a fragnought.

D

Yeah i have to agree here. The 3 inch range on infernus pistols is difficult to use even with drop pods or other forms of accurate deep striking. Everyone seems to be freaking out about dual melta pistols when the combi is just better.

If we are talking about 'meltacide', I assume you mean a single melta pod unsupported by other pods. If this is the case, dual infernus pistols are a great idea. Let me demonstrate the maths:

If podding you can place the pod 1" from the vehicle you want to target (more talk of bubble wrap later), now with a 6" disembark and a 3" range, the pod needs to scatter 9" for the infernus pistols to be out of melta range. This equates to a 2/3 x 10/36 chance, which gives 5/28. That means you have an 82.1% chance to be in range.
Now if your opponent has castled to bubble wrap all his heavy vehicles, then you have forced him to change his deployment in a very negative way if playing maelstrom. 135pts well spent I would say. When since the dawn of 7th have you seen castling against anything apart from armies with a large contingent of pods? Just talking maelstrom of course.

Now a single melta shot has a 13% chance of exploding av14 (2/3 x 21/36 x 1/3). 4 melta shots therefore have a 1 - 0.87^4 chance of exploding an av14. This equates to a 42.7% chance of an explodes result.

This is of course not taking into account; hps lost, immobilized, weapon destroyed and crew stunned results which are all major factors. Also you are extremely likely to take off enough hps to enable your sicaran/rapiers/tri-las pred to finish the job in the same phase, as the ASMs are of course not in a vacume.

But of course it's not just av14 you could send them against. Av13 and 12 will die exceptionally quickly to (or at least be stupidly damaged by) 4 melta shots.

In reference to mbs, im not so sure they are all that great on a pod squad. Any vehicle that is near the drop, which the opponent then doesn't move out of melta threat range (and therefore charge range) deserves to die. On a jp squad that's a different matter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having said all that. I think infernus pistols are over costed and would almost always take a combi-melta in future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1 more thing. Infernus pistols are a waste on anything barring pod squads, because if you are in 3" range, you are charging and probably wrecking it anyway (unless av14 all round).

I think the dual melta combi-melta squad has more efficacy in general than the dual melta dual inferus pistol squad.

I'm coming to realize my view on this is a bit skewed, because my lists rarely have good melta targets to begin with. Plus I can deploy my tri-las pred in places other chapters can't because I can move out 6" and fire everything.

Ive found that there are really only 2 ways to go with suicide melta squads.

1. 5x assault marines with 2x melta+combi in a pod: with 3 of these, you can get 2 in on turn 1 anywhere on the table with decent accuracy. Of course there is always the risk of a bad scatter, or the last pod not coming in until turn 4, but this way is by far the best unless you are running Dante. Which brings us to our next build...

2. 5x assault marines, same setup, keeping jump packs: i only ever run this with dante, but having a 5/6 chance of every unit coming in on turn 2 while only scattering d6 is pretty huge, and lets you deploy melta weapons with laser accuracy. If they survive after dropping, then you now have a highly mobile tank hunting unit that can beat up on weaker backfield units.

I usually run the 2nd choice, and let me say that bringing 9 melta guns turn 1, surrounding a knight and subsequently blowing it into the next county is pretty fun.

Option 4. Melta Bombs are ridiculous since you can't assault out of drop pods and since you put them in the drop pod, the tank will just leave if it survives. Smart money is on not being able to Assault again afterwards. The Inferno pistols have a 9" Melta threat range, including the 6" Disembark move. If you scatter more than 9" then you don't get the spare D6, which sucks but oh well. It's still two S8 AP1 shots.

Alright. One more question.

Regarding combi weapons in sargent, does that replace both bolt pistol and chainswords? Is it a bolter?

 valkyriePROfail wrote:
Alright. One more question.

Regarding combi weapons in sargent, does that replace both bolt pistol and chainswords? Is it a bolter?

1.) Swap Bolter for Chainsword
2.) Swap Chainsword for Inferno Pistol
3.) Swap Bolt Pistol for Inferno Pistol

- TADA! Gunslinging sergeant.


Edit - DOH! I misread your quote.

You swap the bolter for the combi-melta. It's still a bolter, but you get that nice one-shot of melta too.

BA asault sgts. don't come with a bolter.

You can swap out either the pistol or chainsword for the the combi. I swap out the chainsword so you can fire the bp and still charge in later turns. No point in having a combi and chainsword.

I feel like if you are going for a suicide drop its best to just keep em cheap and disposable. if they survive thats great but you shouldnt expect it.

double melta + combi.

KISS!