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So with the massive nerf to blood talons, both my DC dreads seem pretty pants now (not that they saw that much action before - even when I took them).
Been looking at the Blood Slaughterers in IA13 though and since I also have a large CSM army, I've decided to convert them over. Shouldn't be hard, ones been grey for years.
The BS (pity about the acronym) seem to outclass the DCD mightily. With Fury of Khorne and rampage they are averaging 8 st10 ap2 I4 Ws5 attacks EACH on the charge. They have deepstrike so do not require a pod and cost the same price as a talon DCD without a pod. The 5++, fleet, and ignoring stunned and shaken results on a 2+ is just added gravy. Oh and they have a front AV of 13 compared to the DCDs of 12. They can also be taken in units of up to 3 (although I think that would be a mistake).
Their major setback is that they HAVE to chase down the closest unit. This could prove to be an issue. But if the opponent sends cheap units to make the BS run in circles, at worst you've lost a 130pt unit to chase down a couple of cheaper cannon fodder units. I can see this happening now and again unfortunately, but it wouldn't be a game changing loss.
So how to avoid Blind Fury's drawbacks? Firstly DS placement is going to be very important. DS into charge range of an important unit, then the opponent will either have to leg this unit away in their movement phase (and maybe run in the shooting phase) and hope they get out of threat range (not a great thing to have to do if a heavy weapons unit or non fast tank), or move a more expendable unit into closer charge range, and keep repeating this until the BS is destroyed. Running the BS from deployment will make leading the BS an easy task for your opponent, so DS seems like the only option.
So what can help them with their DS? Well you could overload the opponent with mech threats by also deepstriking three MM hellbrutes from the formation for 300pts, supported with 3 combi-melta squads of terminators. If the opponent wants to move units to lead the BS around they will be putting themselves in threat range of your other DS units. All together, with a cultist manned ADL with comms, for 3 DS Hellbrutes, a couple of solo BS and 3 lots of 3 combi-melta DS termis, you are looking at 1010pts (also having filled up a troops slot, taken lots of 4+ cover and given those cultists something useful to do). Giving you 990pts for the rest of your list in a 2k game.

What do you think? Is it worth converting my 2 DCDs over? I have all the models apart from 1 hellbrute to do this (only have 2), but we all know how cheap they are on Ebay. 5 DS dreads for 560pts sounds exciting!

I think that Blood Slaughterers are amazing, and I am surprised more people don't think the same way. They seem like Chaos' answer to killing Knights. I would take them in squads of two and deepstrike them in. With their harpoon gun they can assault straight from deepstrike,

I've never used one, but the stats look amazing!

Do you find it's easy for the opponent to lead them away or does DS counter that to a large enough extent?
I was thinking units of 1 would be best, then if the opponent leads them away you haven't lost too much, or am I getting too hooked up on blind fury?
I hadn't even considered the possibility of the harpoon dragging a vehicle into combat on the turn you deepstrike - amazing!
You're right - they do look an effective counter against knights.

Lastly - if you were playing me, would you be adverse to DC talon dreads, chaosified, representing them? According to the graphics in IA:13, they look hunched, but they should be around the same dimensions right?

I am very sad that DC dreads are so naff.

D

hmm. I have one but have always run it as a maulerfiend. The speed feels worth it.

But AV13 is nice, as is WS5 and I4. I don't think it will do enough to a knight to count, and will struggle to catch one in combat. :(


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They can be taken in units.. which is a bit good! make the f**kers invisible!

Yeh the more I think about it, the more im open to running them as a unit. Saves on HS slots.

Units of 2 are best, as you can position them to cover AV13 to most angles, and shuffle them around to mitigate hullpoint stripping.
I havn't found the blind rage to be much of an issue, unless the enemy has lots of flyers. Then its annoying as hell, and the dumb thing just runs around chasing the birds it can't get to. But keep in mind that it's only for movement. It says nothing about what you can shoot and charge. Unless the enemy keeps a 12" bubble around them clear (more in their in a squad, and pretty difficult if you deepstrike them into their lines), they can still get their gribbly mitts on something squishy.

I hadn't even thought of flyers. They should faq that!
Cheers for the info. Im glad to hear they don't overly suffer from blind fury!


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So would you guys allow DC dreads to represent them (as a permanent thing not a proxy), if I put spikes on them, changed the colour scheme and maybe stuck dead IoM bodies to the base?

Well, strangers on the internet are unlikely to match the views of your local gaming group.

In my view, the idea of using a conversion is OK but you would need to significantly increase the mass (and apparent ferocity) of the model, to be a suitable proxy.

this pic is pretty good for size difference, but doesn't quite capture the fact the the BS has a much bigger footprint.



I have done something similar myself turning a regular dread into a "maulerfiend". I swapped out the legs for sentinel legs, bulked out the whole thing with green stuff and armour and gave it a new head.


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[quote=herpguy 631584 7513987 2fa8588a53345e5f60621cbb5e3b2cc3.jpgWith their harpoon gun they can assault straight from deepstrike,

Unfortunately I can't open that file. Cheers anyway. I'll bulk it up as you say.

I think there is a lot of potential in the blood slaughterer.
Also interesting that it can be taken in 3 different armies (marines , daemons, renegades)

Pro's
Deep strike
Front AV13
5+ invulnerable
WS 5
Fleet
Int 4 (annoyingly equal to a knight)
Very good number of S 10 attacks. Gets d3 charging attacks and rampage against larger units.
Unit of 3
Causes fear haha
Can sacrifice an cc attack to get a decent shooting attack
Has ability to get into combat on the turn it deep strike.
Daemon of khorne, so can get its invulnerable save boosted by Cursed Earth, The grimoire of true names And The first war of Armageddon legacy
Is also a decent unit to make invisible.
Save against stunned and shaken.


Cons
Slower than a maulerfiend
costlier than a hellbrute
less shooty than a contemptor.
Completely uncontrollable in the movement phase.


I would suggest using small units of hounds to "herd" them in the right direction. they are fast enough and have long bases so would be relatively easy to set them up in the movement phase to only allow the blood slaughterers to go in the direction you want. Same for running in the shooting phase.


Alternatively deep strike them, however they are expensive so would try and flood the field with icons and inv save boosters before trying this.

Say- land raider surrounded by hounds, with the legacy of armageddon, with bloodletters inside with an icon to allow scatter free deep strike.

or - screamerstar with tzeralds and cursed earth.


I'm not sure they are the perfect answer to knights. As a unit of 3 costs more than a knight, and will probably take heavy casualties trying to kill one. But still a really decent unit. Not sure if it can impaler- drag a knight alas, as its a super heavy.

I think this is a great unit tho. That many strength 10 attacks is a threat to even the worst death stars, and if you can get a decent invul save or invisibility (or both) than you can probably tank the return attacks.

Guaranteed invulnerable save increase with the Chaos Legacy is amazing... that's why I have three of them!

What tank to you use for the legacy? need to be something that can keep up, and still be useful.

That totally depends... But normally another walker (Helbrutes, ferrum infernus or contemptor) to hide out of line of sight more effectively. Sure it's not going to last long but a tank is a bigger target and harder to bubblewrap.

All this talk of proxies has me digging through my back catalogue.. what do you reckon, suitable?




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Or even this

Probably both are suitable cool conversions!

Awesome!