Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Another question because of my rewriting of the rules:

Monofilament weapons fire a dense monofilament mesh which tighten around the victim whose own struggle just bring about his doom so much faster.

Having high Strength and no armour piercing makes sense for this weapon because it sounds like it could work against even tough monstrous creatures and though the wire is sharp and can work it's way through flesh, armour can stop it fairly easy. Also the special rule reflecting that slower creatures have a harder time against this weapon makes sense.
Now, the rules are made such that high strength weapons are good against vehicles but looking at the background and explanation of this weapon, I just can't imagine the mesh fired at a tank could do even the slightest damage.

What do you think? Have I misunderstood what the weapon actually does or?

It's just a screw-up with the rules. It seems to me that the mesh would snap if it were fired against an APC, tank, etc. But it would be highly effective against walkers like Imperial Knights due to wrapping around kegs and tripping them.

If it snaps on contact with an unmoving box, why would it hold when wrapped around a pair of legs applying a few thousand PSI against it?

The solution of course is simple: Simply make it so that monofilament weapons have a special rule that prevents them penetrating vehicles.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
If it snaps on contact with an unmoving box, why would it hold when wrapped around a pair of legs applying a few thousand PSI against it?

The solution of course is simple: Simply make it so that monofilament weapons have a special rule that prevents them penetrating vehicles.

The mesh would get ground up by the treads

 dusara217 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
If it snaps on contact with an unmoving box, why would it hold when wrapped around a pair of legs applying a few thousand PSI against it?

The solution of course is simple: Simply make it so that monofilament weapons have a special rule that prevents them penetrating vehicles.

The mesh would get ground up by the treads

I can't imagine tank treads turning are that much stronger than walker legs straining against monofilament (which can't be that strong anyway).

Chaospling, your understanding of the fluff is accurate. It really is a case of utterly awful rules completely ignoring the fluff.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The solution of course is simple: Simply make it so that monofilament weapons have a special rule that prevents them penetrating vehicles.

Rather than the current situation, where they have a special rule that gives them a bonus against vehicles (and other targets without initiative, such as buildings. Yes, buildings are well known for struggling).

The 2nd Ed rules had them nearly useless against fully enclosed vehicles. Their armour penetration was D6, and you could roll again if you got a 6 (and so on).
This was in a setting where even Rhinos had frontal armour of around 20. You would need a full squad firing for the entire game to have a small chance of getting through the armour once. And then you would roll on a special table to see if you manage to actually kill an important member of the crew.*


*But of course GW didn't do the obvious thing and just say "nope, can't effect enclosed vehicles". Rules for the rules god!

Monofilament wrns should be lowish S, but Fleshbane, and AP-. Possibly Pinning, to represent the difficulty of moving out of the web. Or a unit hit by them counts as moving through Dangerous Terrain on their next turn.

If the wire gets into a vehicle, it can seriously ruin the pilots day, but the chances of doing so are very slim.

The problem is what role monofilament weapons fill. For example, monofilament weapons in 2nd edition were template weapons, forced Initiative tests and failure meant being hit, being hit and failing saves meant instant death. So this meant monofilament weapons were good against slow (low Initiative) enemies with poor armor. High Toughness and Wounds meant nothing. Monofilament weapons in 2nd edition could theoretically penetrate vehicles but were very very unlikely to do so.

However after 2nd edition, monofilament weapons became Strength 6 which overlaps with Shuriken Cannons and Scatter Lasers. Having a Strength and the bonus it got last Eldar Codex means it actually turned into a reasonable anti-vehicle weapon.

In 2nd edition Epic, there was a monofilament firing vehicle, the Doomweaver, and its main threat was that any target hit that could not move out of the way was instantly destroyed. Again this meant big slow targets were the most vulnerable.

With the release of the Night Spinner vehicle mounting the Doomweaver weapon (a nod to the Epic Doomweaver), monofilament became Strength 6 with the rule of forcing Dangerous Terrain if the target moved. This perhaps fit the whole concept of targets having to dodge out of a falling lethal cloud, but ironically would pose little threat to a target that could afford to just stay in place.

In short, GW needs to figure out just what they want monofilament weapons to be. Are they meant to be anti-infantry? Area denial? Some mix of the two? Or something else?

That 2nd ed rule sounds awesome. I wish they were more like that!

Well, frankly, a monofilament wire will snap when it hits anything, including skin, a rain drop or a stiff breeze. It's only one molecule in diameter FFS.

The only way a monofilament wire is actually dangerous is if it's encased in a stasis field, in which case it will tear through literally anything made of matter, including flesh, armour, tanks, buildings, titans and mountains. Of course, that would be hideously overpowered, but if you want realism, that's where it is.

Assuming its the chemical bonds holding it together, probably. But couldn't it have some sort of energy field or space-curving holding it together?

Bran Dawri wrote:
Well, frankly, a monofilament wire will snap when it hits anything, including skin, a rain drop or a stiff breeze. It's only one molecule in diameter FFS.

The only way a monofilament wire is actually dangerous is if it's encased in a stasis field, in which case it will tear through literally anything made of matter, including flesh, armour, tanks, buildings, titans and mountains. Of course, that would be hideously overpowered, but if you want realism, that's where it is.

Sounds like some DAoT Tech the Mechanicum would kill billions for

Or Eldar psykitech.

I'm just saying whoever came up with the eldar tech in question didn't remember their classic scifi or their physics very well.

Monofilament literally means it's only one molecule in diameter. There's no conceivable material that has any resistance against breaking immediately when it hits, well, anything if it's only one molecule thick.

Unless it's somehow prevented from doing so, like in a stasis field. Unfortunately, while there are examples in scifi of such a tool/weapon, these are always accompanied by the mention of such a field. GW's (AFAIK), does not. They just thought "monofilament"! That sounds cool! Let's make it some kind of fleshshredding weapon!" without even remotely remembering why these things (theoretically) work in the first place.

Sorry about the soapbox. Pet peeve there.

In Infinity tabletop monofilament weapons are basically treated as light sabers of the infinity universe, whats even scarier is that there are guns that can use monofilament ammunition.

http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Monofilament_Special_Ammunition

The fishes be scared...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monofilament_fishing_line