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Alrighty then, so I've decided to swear my fealty to the dark gods and will be playing a Chaos Space Marines army. As the title says, I am a newbie. I have very little understanding of rules though i do have an old rulebook that a friend gave to me from his battle of macragge set. There sadly aren't any gamesworkshops near my house so I will have to see about finding local hobby stores to play at. I think for starters I'm going to just make a 500 pt army and then work up to a 1000 pt. I want my army to be good for casual play and just having fun but at the same time I want it to be "competitive" enough to win!

So I've got a couple questions to ask:


1) I really love the Word Bearers, they have always been a favorite of mine so I think I will make a WB army. Now, just because they are word bearers would it be ok to use icons of slaanesh, nurgle, etc. in that army?


2) I really like the model design for the Chaos Sorcerer with the staff. But suppose for my HQ I wanted a Chaos Lord. Would it be alright if I used a sorc and told my opponent before the battle I am using a Lord, that I only used the Sorc for his looks? And could the same be said if say I wanted the "sorcerer" to be just say Typhus for example. As long as I let my opponent know, would it be a problem?

3) I really like the idea of having one color scheme but will also vary the individual models abit (so maybe this one is red, silver, and gold while another model is red, silver, and black) but I also really love the iron warriors and black legion. Do you think it would be ok if maybe two or three of my foot soldiers wore the black legion color scheme but maybe had their helmet and right shoulderpad painted red to symbolize them joining?

4) As I mentioned above, I really like units that look cool (hence why I love Chaos) but I hear a lot of people saying that if you use a Chaos Lord you should put him on a bike. Honestly, I think bikes look dumb but are they really good in the game?



5) Those were just some basic questions I had. Now for the real big decision: How will I build up my army? I understand that some armies have certain strengths when in battle. Tyranids are goodin melee. Tau are good as shooters. But how does Chaos work? From a beginners perspective, it appears that Chaos has a lot of customizable options and armiescan be built in different ways. You could have a raptor heavy army focusing on close combat or have lots of havocs and shoot from afar. I just don't know how I want my army to function.

I don't want to just grab handfuls of random units and toss them out onto the battle field. I want to have a good strategy and understand how my army works. I'm not even sure which HQ I should start with. I'm also not sure if I should invest in heavy support like hellbrutes and defilers, or use fast attack support. So is there any advice you can give me?

I don't have a ton of cash (curse you college!) so it might take some time to get my army rolling. Oh and also, I see on games workshop's website that some units they usedto have aren't there anymore (like a certain chaos sorcerer that had the two dragon/serpent shoulder pads) This guy...
http://ralakan.com/epgp/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/P1010002-7.JPG

are there placesyou can still buy these?

Thanks for helping me and sorry for the long post! Really excited to begin my army

FOR THE DARK GODS!!!

Now that we have got that out of the way I will answer some of your questions and hopefully help. Others more in the know will correct me if I am wrong

 Androxine Vortex wrote:
1) I really love the Word Bearers, they have always been a favorite of mine so I think I will make a WB army. Now, just because they are word bearers would it be ok to use icons of slaanesh, nurgle, etc. in that army?

Indeed. The Word Bearers were (or are depending on your source) an Undivided Legion but since the New Codex came out individual squads dedicate themselves to one of the Pantheon. Even if they could still be Undivided certain troops might be more dedicated to one God than another. If you are interested in going Word Bearers, have a look at the Crimson Slaughter supplement.

The Chaos Codex says on the Word Bearers

Dedicating every new blasphemy to the Ruinous Powers, they each venerate one of the Chaotic Pantheon with manic fervour.

 Androxine Vortex wrote:
2) I really like the model design for the Chaos Sorcerer with the staff. But suppose for my HQ I wanted a Chaos Lord. Would it be alright if I used a sorc and told my opponent before the battle I am using a Lord, that I only used the Sorc for his looks? And could the same be said if say I wanted the "sorcerer" to be just say Typhus for example. As long as I let my opponent know, would it be a problem?

I wouldn't see why not.

 Androxine Vortex wrote:
3) I really like the idea of having one color scheme but will also vary the individual models abit (so maybe this one is red, silver, and gold while another model is red, silver, and black) but I also really love the iron warriors and black legion. Do you think it would be ok if maybe two or three of my foot soldiers wore the black legion color scheme but maybe had their helmet and right shoulderpad painted red to symbolize them joining?

Sure, you could say that the trooper is on loan to the Word Bearers force to learn some new Daemonancy, or that they left their original Legion as they weren't worshiping the Gods enough, or make up your own story. Warbands like the Red Corsairs, in the original fluff at least, contained various rogue Space Marines from various Chapters and their armour had red crosses marked over Legion Insignia.

 Androxine Vortex wrote:
4) As I mentioned above, I really like units that look cool (hence why I love Chaos) but I hear a lot of people saying that if you use a Chaos Lord you should put him on a bike. Honestly, I think bikes look dumb but are they really good in the game?

5) Those were just some basic questions I had. Now for the real big decision: How will I build up my army? I understand that some armies have certain strengths when in battle. Tyranids are goodin melee. Tau are good as shooters. But how does Chaos work? From a beginners perspective, it appears that Chaos has a lot of customizable options and armiescan be built in different ways. You could have a raptor heavy army focusing on close combat or have lots of havocs and shoot from afar. I just don't know how I want my army to function.

It's your army so you should do it like you want too. But obviously you want to be able to a least do well in games. My army is primarily shooty with Noise Marines and Havocs, so my Lord is a foot slogger and just hangs at the back. It's up to you, but if you want to go close combat then a bike can be handy. Close Combat is tricky to get into in this edition and the Bike makes that a bit easier. Chaos is supposed to be pretty CC orientated but shooty seems to be the way most go.

Most Chaos forces are built up around Plague Marines and Obliterators as they are pretty versatile. So think about including these in your force. A Heldrake is something else to consider. Have a search around the forum to get a better idea on others opinions on what to take. I'm not the best player

 Androxine Vortex wrote:
I don't have a ton of cash (curse you college!) so it might take some time to get my army rolling. Oh and also, I see on games workshop's website that some units they usedto have aren't there anymore (like a certain chaos sorcerer that had the two dragon/serpent shoulder pads) This guy...

eBay! I couldn't find him on there at a respectable price at this minute in time, but he does pop up.

Well there is this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/warhammer-40k-metal-chaos-space-marine-sorcerers-x3-/361182348991?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item54182546bf

Shouldn't be too hard to do a bit of converting, just needs an arm.

As said above, if your opponent is ok with a proxy, there is no issues. I think you'll find most people will be ok with that as long as the model is the same size as the model the ruleset is for.

On your question about Chaos Space Marines tactics: CSM's strength is short range firepower. Think 3"-12" shooting. Melta, flamers, rapid fire inferno bolters, sonic blasters, plasma guns. Our close combat is better than our long range shooting, but not as good as our short range shooting.
Right now nurgle is the strongest mark you can take in most cases, but not all, due to the universal usefulness of having a higher toughness. Where as other stats only help in melee, or shooting, or movement, everything in 40K takes damage, and tests toughness when they do.

Where does that leave us with the Word Bearers? As a chaos undivided faction of the Chaos Space Marines, they worship all four chaos gods together. Taking marks is certainly acceptable fluff wise, as they should be rewarded for their dedication to the chaos gods. Some fluffy units for Word Bearers:
-Possessed
-Dark Apostles
-Helbrute with Helcult Dataslate Formation
-Cultists
-Daemons of any kind (Daemon Engines, Possessed Chaos Space Marines like Warp Talons, actual Daemons, taken as allies, like a Bloodthirster or a Lord of Change or something)

Before I can help you design an army any further, I have to ask, what units led you to choose CSM? Obviously you like that one sorcerer model you linked. What else?

I think they are called forge fiends, the new unit with the cannons for arms, that thing is wicked! The Defiler is cool too. Just looking at the units available and keeping in mind i don't have the codex or know how well this would be, i came up with a sample end goal army.

Hq, maybe a daemon Prince. I hear they are good if you give them wings and i think it's called warp time?
Any other suggestions for hq?

Two troop squads of chaos marines.

One or two squads of havocs.

A forgefiend.

Maybe a Defiler if they are good.

One or two raptors/warp talons.



That's all i came up with. Again, have no idea how well that would actually function. And maybe i need transport tanks? Not sure if daemons are good, like bloodletters.

When it comes to army building i don't know if having a focused army (like all ranged And heavy support) is better or have a balanced mix like the list i gave which is probably over 1000pts.

I know this is a lot of questions so i really do appreciate the help

best air unit in the game - chaos fire raptor.

money is an issue? sell you're body. it's worth it. or, scratch build. a stormraven kit + some creativity should be able to get you by.

don't forget traitor guard, very fluffy for word bearers. gotta spread the good word.

 Androxine Vortex wrote:
I think they are called forge fiends, the new unit with the cannons for arms, that thing is wicked! The Defiler is cool too. Just looking at the units available and keeping in mind i don't have the codex or know how well this would be, i came up with a sample end goal army.

Hq, maybe a daemon Prince. I hear they are good if you give them wings and i think it's called warp time?
Any other suggestions for hq?

Two troop squads of chaos marines.

One or two squads of havocs.

A forgefiend.

Maybe a Defiler if they are good.

One or two raptors/warp talons.



That's all i came up with. Again, have no idea how well that would actually function. And maybe i need transport tanks? Not sure if daemons are good, like bloodletters.

When it comes to army building i don't know if having a focused army (like all ranged And heavy support) is better or have a balanced mix like the list i gave which is probably over 1000pts.

I know this is a lot of questions so i really do appreciate the help

Yes, rhinos are often good to take on units that can take them. Daemon Princes are ok, they just suffer, like many CSM units, from dumping tons of points into offensive upgrades, but not having the defenses to get into combat. These days, the best loadout for the CSM daemon Prince is usually DoN, because that gives him a 2+ Cover save at all times because of shrouded + current jinking rules. Defilers aren't considered that great, as they spend so many points on weapons they never use. They are basically 195 point battle cannons. I'll try my best to write a 1850 point list for you here:

Daemon Prince- DoN, Wings, Armor, Black Mace, ML 3, Spell Familiar (Warlord)
10 Chaos Space Marines- 2 Plasma Guns, Rhino
10 Chaos Space Marines- 2 Plasma Guns, Rhino
5 Raptors- 2 Melta Guns
5 Raptors- 2 Melta Guns
Heldrake- Baleflamer
5 Havocs- 4 Autocannons
5 Havocs- 4 Autocannons
Forgefiend- 2 Hades Autocannons

Well, that's only 1570 points actually. Your raptors hunt tanks, Daemon Prince rolls on biomancy and assaults something like terminators, your havocs and forgefiend sit back and point and shoot, and your heldrake vector strikes enemy fliers and fries enemy heavy troops. Its not much, but its a start!

Fist off, i am a horrible player. But I will offer some advice.

1. Get a current rule book and learn the rules. Many games can be won by knowing the rules well. Take advantage of opportunities and openings that the rules offer. I lost a game solely because I told my opponent he could throw grenades at my HQ and then charge him; he didn't know that and was going to just fore go shooting with bolters and wait for the assault phase.

2. Get a codex and study it, then study some more. Choose 2-3 units you LOVE, and figure out how to put together an army and plan that will guarantee those units get to do what they do best. If its Obliterators, highlight what they do best, if its Havoks, optimize shooting and minimize losses, etc.

3. Read up about the "flying circus" and decide if you want to go that route or not. I don't, but many opponents will expect it, and tool up for it. It sux to have an opponent beat you with the kitchen sink because he was expecting Heldrakes and Demonprinces and you don't have any.

4. Psychic phase is strong with chaos, decide if its for you or naw. A LOT can be accomplished here, and Chaos can do it pretty well.

5. Chaos HTH is the bomb. Chaos transportation is lackluster. A little planning here goes a LONG way. Running across the table is inefficient, and only works when you cover the table in bodies, and even then most will die long before you close with the enemy.

6. Search out the synergies within the list, the codex, and various dataslates. With a little research you can engineer some amazing lists/gameplans. come up with a variant or three before you purchase models and you can be competitive and have fun too. That also keeps you from painting models that you only use once and never again -- looking at you Defiler!

7. Plan for anti-air, or plan to ignore anything not on the ground and deal with the losses.

8. Plan for armor, or choose to ignore it and deal with the losses.

9. Plan for Knights, or take a loss. I can't speak from 1st hand experience, but it seems like either you plan for them or you take a loss; period.

Above all, have fun. This is a community hobby, and thats what you play for. If you are not having fun, seek out a differt FLGS.

HTH
Heybiff

Does anyone know any good sites that sell new units for cheap and prefer they accept u.s. currency. The only thing holding me back is price. I am a little apprehensive about using eBay because I've never used it and am wondering if something is listed as new and i buy it and its not or Damaged would i get a refund?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I found this place, can't post links
Triple helix war games.com

 Androxine Vortex wrote:
Does anyone know any good sites that sell new units for cheap and prefer they accept u.s. currency. The only thing holding me back is price. I am a little apprehensive about using eBay because I've never used it and am wondering if something is listed as new and i buy it and its not or Damaged would i get a refund?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I found this place, can't post links
Triple helix war games.com

Try to start slow if money is an issue, get a HQ and 2 Troops, get them built and painted, and try it out in a small game and go on from there.. Ebay is good, but as you say, you never know to a 100% (But afaik the seller is responsible for the pictures being representative?). Check the images of what is posted on ebay, and make sure to buy from sellers with a good reputation (A lot of stars). I have only had good experiences with Ebay. If you want to wargame on a budget, buy half broken/badly painted miniatures and try to fix it. I got myself about 100 random ork models for the same price as a box of marines, it took a couple of hours, but after some work they look pretty good.

A sorc is not worse for HQ. Arguably better. Yes, you have some chances of getting perilled to death but that's a worhwile risk for the benefits psy powers bring.

Possessed are pretty weak on the tabletop. But they can be used as a sorc retinue. There's a crimson slaughter relic - Prophet Of The Voices that makes bearer a daemon and he can only stick with possessed. Being a daemon, he can effectively summon daemons without getting perilled on all doubles. Cool theme for word bearers if you ask me.

About a bike. It might look meh but noone prohibits you from getting some sort of daemonic mount or a mutated lower body and make a daemonic centaur character that plays as if he's riding a bike. I'm running orks and am about to work on a mega rokkit pack for my warboss. I don't have bikers and don't want a single bker indep ride along my footsloggas for aestethical reasons but want to try out how bikerboss plays out. I like rokkit packs however. Thus, he's gona have a helhuge rokkit pack that's gona represent a 'bike'.

Forgefiends are mediocre. Too expensive and not overly shooty.
Maulerfiends are great for a mellee rush army.
Heldrakes are great - don't spam them, however as they're quite expensive and reserving too many stuff ain't great.
Defiler is probably worse than a forgefiend due to how much it pays for options it's never gona use to full potential.
Raptors are good. Either as melta/plasma drop or on maps with lots of los blocking and impass terrain.
Warptalons - not so much. Too expensive and specialised.

Note that you can make use of any unit. I'd just try to figure out what solid core works for you. And than start adding stuff bit by bit. That's how it works for me so just sayin'.