Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I just got and painted an Imperial Knight, and wanted to get some use out of the techmarine for my IF. So I thought, why not do the Blessing of Omniashh (spelling?) on the IK, and so far, it says nothing against it, but have you guys found anything?

The only issue I had so far is someone complaining about the wording on the Blessing rule.

If you take the techmarines as an allied force and your IK is your warlord (making the knight detatchment your main detatchment), then some people say he cant repair him.

I don't have my books on me atm since im at work, but this is the only complaint I've heard so far.




If your planning a list like this however, always put your MotF and Techmarines on bikes so they can actually keep up with the knights in the movement phase.

This is completely fine and works.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The only issue I had so far is someone complaining about the wording on the Blessing rule.

If you take the techmarines as an allied force and your IK is your warlord (making the knight detatchment your main detatchment), then some people say he cant repair him.

This doesn't make sense. The Blessing rule only requires that the target is a friendly vehicle and that the techmarine is in base contact or embarked upon it. Since the Knight is a Battle Brother ally, it is a friendly vehicle. It doesn't matter which is the Primary Detachment.

The only argument against this rule is that, technically, an IC must stay more than 2" away from a unit it isn't joining (or can't join), but I've never seen anyone enforce this (otherwise an IC could never embark upon a vehicle, etc).

If you take a FW IK as a LoW, it would be a "Marine Vehicle" and cause no issues with Blessing.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
If you take a FW IK as a LoW, it would be a "Marine Vehicle" and cause no issues with Blessing.

SJ

Wait... Is this another case of the digital version being different to the physical version because of a missing entry from the 7th ed errata? My digital edition doesn't mention anything about "Marine Vehicles", only "friendly vehicles".

 Cheexsta wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
If you take a FW IK as a LoW, it would be a "Marine Vehicle" and cause no issues with Blessing.

SJ

Wait... Is this another case of the digital version being different to the physical version because of a missing entry from the 7th ed errata? My digital edition doesn't mention anything about "Marine Vehicles", only "friendly vehicles".

Nope it is a case of people making up rules. It is "friendly vehicle" in physical copy.

Or maybe it's case of paraphrasing. I know, that might be an advance concept for some.

SJ

If you are paraphrasing you should not use double quotation marks. You use double quotation marks when you make a direct reference. If you want to use quotations marks to allude to an idea, or paraphrase if you will, but are not making a direct reference[list] you should use single quotation marks. I know, that might be an advance concept for some.

Poking fun aside, it looks like RAW you can't get your techmarine close enough to the the Knight for him to do his thing. He only has permission to be within 2 inches of a vehicle if he is embarking upon. I don't know of any one who plays it that way though so if you and your opponent have no issues with a house rule allowing that then yes he can repair the knight.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Or maybe it's case of paraphrasing. I know, that might be an advance concept for some.

SJ

Paraphrasing that completely changes the meaning of the sentence and the actions required to make the rule work? I don't think you understand paraphrasing. Without even going into the use of quotation marks...

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Or maybe it's case of paraphrasing. I know, that might be an advance concept for some.

SJ

Then why would it make a difference whether the vehicle is a LOW or not?

 Cheexsta wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Or maybe it's case of paraphrasing. I know, that might be an advance concept for some.

SJ

Then why would it make a difference whether the vehicle is a LOW or not?

Because he made up rules and thinks that is the same as paraphrasing. It is a common theme with him at the moment.

it is 'friendly vehicle', which is fine as an Imperial Knight is always Battle Brothers with anyone who can take a techmarine.

Theoretically you could argue that an Imperial Knight is a Superheavy Walker not a vehicle, but as far as I know Superheavy Walker counts as Superheavy Vehicle counts as Vehicle for anything not specified as an exception in their unit type entry.

locarno24 wrote:
it is 'friendly vehicle', which is fine as an Imperial Knight is always Battle Brothers with anyone who can take a techmarine.

Theoretically you could argue that an Imperial Knight is a Superheavy Walker not a vehicle, but as far as I know Superheavy Walker counts as Superheavy Vehicle counts as Vehicle for anything not specified as an exception in their unit type entry.

Not a good argument. From the BRB "Super-heavy Walkers are Walkers that have the additional rules and exceptions..." and "Walkers are an unusual type of vehicle." Super-heavy walkers are most definitely vehicles.

 DJGietzen wrote:
He only has permission to be within 2 inches of a vehicle if he is embarking upon.

I'm curious as to where you found that rule?
And would the general permission to be anywhere close to allies not ignore this?

An IC must not get within 2" of a unit he can not or does not want to join. Technically this still stands for embarking and prevents the Omnissiah from ever being used RaW. Which is stupid and is ignored for that reason.

 FlingitNow wrote:
An IC must not get within 2" of a unit he can not or does not want to join. Technically this still stands for embarking and prevents the Omnissiah from ever being used RaW. Which is stupid and is ignored for that reason.

But this would also apply to an Imperial Knight? (Not a transport)

Or any vehicle like a Predator? Or just to transports because of the IC rule?

How sick a master of the forge on a bike? Do you give him conversion beamer? Can he take servo harness on a bike? Not sure he can.

ICs can't get within 2" of any unit that they aren't joining. Thus they can never get in a transport ever nor using blessing ever on any vehicle no matter what RaW.

 Xenomancers wrote:
How sick a master of the forge on a bike? Do you give him conversion beamer? Can he take servo harness on a bike? Not sure he can.

Why couldn't he take servo harness and a bike?

walkers are vehicles.

There is no restriction for an IC being in B2B with a vehicle btw. Not sure where thats coming from.


Since an IC can never join a vehicle's "unit" with the exception of weird formations, it wont ever come up as an issue.

"If an independent character does not intend to (or cannot) join a unit, it must (where possible) remain more than 2" away from it at the end of the Movement phase." -Rulebook, Special Rules, Independent Character

That's where it's coming from.

except that has nothing to do with him standing near a vehicle.

That is pertaining to IC's near non-vehicle units.


We know without a doubt that he can stand base to base with a vehicle since if he couldnt he would never be able to embark or disembark from a transport, nor would he ever be able to use his "Blessing".

 Lobukia wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
How sick a master of the forge on a bike? Do you give him conversion beamer? Can he take servo harness on a bike? Not sure he can.

Why couldn't he take servo harness and a bike?

Thought I saw an asterisk about it. Guess I was wrong - codex not in front of me.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
except that has nothing to do with him standing near a vehicle.

Vehicles are units

That is pertaining to IC's near non-vehicle units.

It doesn't say that, it says units. Unless you have a quote that proves otherwise?

We know without a doubt that he can stand base to base with a vehicle since if he couldnt he would never be able to embark or disembark from a transport, nor would he ever be able to use his "Blessing".

 BlackTalos wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:
He only has permission to be within 2 inches of a vehicle if he is embarking upon.

I'm curious as to where you found that rule?
And would the general permission to be anywhere close to allies not ignore this?

That is a conclusion drawn from a few rules

1) From the independent character rules, "(Independent Characters) cannot... join units that contain vehicles or Monstrous Creatures. "

2) Also from the independent chatacter rules, "If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining. If an Independent Character does not intend to (or cannot) join a unit, it must (where possible) remain more than 2" away from it at the end of the Movement phase."

3) From the embarking rules, "A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its Access Points in the Movement phase.... When the unit embarks, remove it from the table and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported."

So the IC has no issues moving within two inches of the vehicle in the movement phase when it is embarking because it will be removed from the table and no longer be within two inches of the vehicle at the end of the movement phase.

It is worth mentioning that you can actually end your movement of an IC within two inches of vehicle or MC if you intend that unit to then move an increase the distance between them again. You have until the end of the movement phase to create the gap. If something then prohibits the second unit from moving away, like it gets stuck in some difficult terrain or something, then no harm because it was possible they would be far enough apart when the IC moved, but is no longer possible after the second unit has moved.

Blessing of the Omnissiah grants permission for the Techmarine to be a Base to Base contact with a friendly vehicle via the direction to make Base to Base contact with vehicles in order to make repairs. This special rule allows the Techmarine to ignore normal restrictions in this instance. Not sure way people get hung up when permission is granted in the actual rule.

SJ

No, base contact is a requirement for the rule to work. It does not specifically give permission.

And we're only being technical here - I have never seen anyone claim in a real scenario that an IC could never move within 2" of any vehicle.

 Cheexsta wrote:
No, base contact is a requirement for the rule to work. It does not specifically give permission.

And we're only being technical here - I have never seen anyone claim in a real scenario that an IC could never move within 2" of any vehicle.

I guess we gave different definitions for the word "permission".

SJ