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Assuming that it is legal to use scout with your devilfish in your pathfinder team, is it legal to disembark at the end of the movement?

No. The wording of Disembarkation confines it to the movement phase, or rather confines it to a window of time after a Movement Phase in which the occupants began inside the vehicle.

It notes in scout though that "All the normal movement rules apply" which would indicate to me that they can embark or disembark.

Yes, but the Disembark rule explicitly states something along the lines of:

"Models that begin the movement phase inside a vehicle..." (I apologize if this is not a precise quote. I do remember that it explicitly states phase though...)

It is the phase, not the ability to move, that matters.

Honestly, Pathfinders cannot disembark after the Scout move ? Lol, they've just dropped even further in my eyes.

Ok, I found the quote:

"Disembarking
A unit that begins its Movement phase aboard a vehicle can get out either before or after the vehicle has moved." p 62 BGB

So what does that prove? Or should I say did it prove what you wanted it to?

I'm in the they can disembark camp. Scout movement can do anything that can be done in the movement phase. You have to take difficult terrain checks if in difficult terrain, bikers who get scout moves have to make dangerious terrain checks if in difficult terrain. Disembarking is part of the normal movement phase. So they can disembark because one can disembark in the movement phase.

Remember there is no before game starts phase. Things that are allowed to work as if it was a different phase before the game begins get to do everything that is allowed in that phase.

I would like to add to that Jayden, that if you look in the codex, it explicitly states that it must be the movement phase to move your normal 6" movement, but scout overrides that.

Just like you can only shoot during shooting phase but Auspex rules override that.

So they can disembark ?

In order to disembark, you must fullfil a requirement.

That requirement is: "A unit that begins its Movement phase aboard a vehicle..."


Did the Scouting unit begin its Movement Phase aboard the vehicle? No, the Movement phase has not yet occured.

Are the criteria for Disembarking met? No, the criteria can only be met after the beginning of a Movement phase.

Can you Disembark? No, the criteria have not been met.

That requirement is: "A unit that begins its Movement phase aboard a vehicle..."

I think you are misinterperting that quote.  To me it is just restating that you can not voluntarily embark and disembark in the same turn.

The Scout rule says the normal movement rules apply to the 'Free' move.  On pg 62 under "Embarking & Disembarking" the last sentence says, "Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the Movement phase."  A normal movement rule is disembarking.  So disembarking is allowed (as long as they did not also embark).

 

 Frozen Warrior

How am I misinterpreting?

"A unit that begins its Movement phase aboard a vehicle..."

Does the Scouting unit begin its Movement phase aboard a vehicle? No.

Normal movement rules applying to the 'Free' move does not make it a Movement phase any more than normal shooting rules applying to an Auspex's 'Free' shot make it a Shooting phase.


Disembarking is confined to the actual Movement phase, just as Fury of the Ancients is confined to the actual Shooting phase.

@blue loki

Disembarking rules are part of normal movement rules. Meaning you could embark and move but not disembark, or move and disemebark but not re-embark.

Disembarking is confined to the actual Movement phase, just as Fury of the Ancients is confined to the actual Shooting phase.

No quite right. Try thinking of the scout move as a pregame movement phase and that will solve all your problems. Just like when using auspex you get a pre game shooting phase. Anything that can happen in the movement phase can happen in a scout move. This includes disembarking, hell it includes embarking as well.

As for FOTA thats a bad example for you to use. FOTA is not a shooting attack so it can't be used with an auspex for pregame shooting. Even if you wanted to argue that it is a shooting attack it still cannot be used because the special rules for the Auspex forces you to target a specific unit, the mechanics of FOTA cannot target a specific unit in anyway shape or form, which is why it cannot be used.

But Scout is not a pregame movement phase, it is a pregame move. All it allows is for the vehicle to move, not to do the other things that also happen in the movement phase, so no disembarking. The reason it says normal movement rules apply is so that you would still make breakdown tests if necissary, still roll for difficult terrain etc.

If your willing to use one of the options allowed in the movement phase (breakdown test) why not use all of the options that are allowed in the movement phase. Ie. embarking and disembarking. After all breakdown test only happen in the movement phase as well (vehicles don't get assault phases). The way your argueing a scout move would get to always move its full distance regardless of difficult terrain or breakdown tests or anything else.

Also note: not only does the devil fish get a scout move, but the pathfinders get their scout move as well. They just don't get to move their 6" as it was taken up by the devilfishes move (if they were infact deployed inside the devilfish. But I still see nothing that would prevent them from disembarking as it is allowed to happen in the movement phase and any and all actions that do happen in the movement phase can happen in the scout move.

Okay.. lets assume the answer to all the scout questions brought up so far are no.

This means that pathfinders might as well not have scout as the situation they can not scout are:

To move the devilfish
To Disembark
To move the devilfish then disembark
To start on the board in an escalation mission.

When can they?

When they deploy outside of a devilfish in a non escalation mission they may use their 6" scout move.

Seems pretty stupid to me,  not completly useless, but they would be a far better unit without the devilfish since it seems to hold them back in all respects.

-Legacy40k

That "all normal movement rules apply" makes this a situation without a clear-cut answer.

Posted By Jayden63 on 04/25/2006 2:07 PM
 The way your argueing a scout move would get to always move its full distance regardless of difficult terrain or breakdown tests or anything else.

Actually I said the opposite:

The reason it says normal movement rules apply is so that you would still make breakdown tests if necissary, still roll for difficult terrain etc.

I said nothing about moving it's full distance automatically, I said it would still follow the movement rules. That would include not being able to move the full distance if it failed a breakdown test.

Posted By Jayden63 on 04/25/2006 2:07 PM
The way your argueing a scout move would get to always move its full distance regardless of difficult terrain or breakdown tests or anything else.

Actually I said the opposite:

The reason it says normal movement rules apply is so that you would still make breakdown tests if necissary, still roll for difficult terrain etc.

I said nothing about moving it's full distance automatically, I said it would still follow the movement rules. That would include not being able to move the full distance if it failed a breakdown test.

My bad about misreading what you wrote. But it doesn't change my point.