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I'm possibly being blind, but how does preferred enemy affect blasts? Does it allow a scatter re roll just like twin linked blasts?

Use the search function to find the last several page argument. Search for pask preffered enemy and scatter.

According to the rules as written it allows a Reroll, as the rules only ask whether you had the ability to reroll blasts, not how good an ability you hve.

Some posters dispute this, but have no rules backing that stands up to any scrutiny, just assertions.

OK. I don't want to start another immense argument where two sides can not settle. I was of the opinion of it allows a re rolled fail to hit. So as long as I roll all 3 dice I may even get a worse result and that balances the fairness.

I shall simply ask my opponent.

Look up blasts and rerolls, the rule is pretty clear.

That's a tricky one!

I've just had a similar rule discussion on another website regarding Scatter Weapons that Get Hot with Preferred Enemy, and that was clearer than this as with Gets Hot you roll an individual dice before any scatter dice to determine the Gets Hot outcome, Preffered Enemy can be used if a 1 is rolled here.

However in this case you would not roll a 1 as you aren't technically rolling to hit. All I can see in the rule book regarding this is the following:

Blast Weapons and Re-Rolls:

If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast Weapon, the player must re-roll both the Scatter Dice and the 2D6.

I would personally say that PE is useless here. However there may well be something in the rule book thag says otherwise!

Hope this helps.

The rule you quoted only requires a reroll to exist it doesn't care about the trigger. So rolling a 1 is no more important than say rolling a failed to hit (the trigger for a reroll with prescience and every other reroll to hit I'm aware of in the game, except perhaps ammo runts).

This has become a "Chicken or the Egg" argument. There is no definitive answer, that both sides can agree on.

 RedEyeJedi21 wrote:
That's a tricky one!

I've just had a similar rule discussion on another website regarding Scatter Weapons that Get Hot with Preferred Enemy, and that was clearer than this as with Gets Hot you roll an individual dice before any scatter dice to determine the Gets Hot outcome, Preffered Enemy can be used if a 1 is rolled here.

Your conclusion is correct, but your argument isn't. Blasts weapons never roll to hit, so PEs restriction on 1s isn't relevant.

However in this case you would not roll a 1 as you aren't technically rolling to hit. All I can see in the rule book regarding this is the following:

Blast Weapons and Re-Rolls:

If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast Weapon, the player must re-roll both the Scatter Dice and the 2D6.

I would personally say that PE is useless here. However there may well be something in the rule book thag says otherwise!

Is PE an ability to reroll To Hit? It's an unqualified question, so the answer cannot be "sometimes" - it's either yes it no. And it cannot be no, as the ability does allow you to reroll (some) To Hit rolls. So the answer must be yes.

rigeld2 wrote:

 RedEyeJedi21 wrote:
That's a tricky one!

I've just had a similar rule discussion on another website regarding Scatter Weapons that Get Hot with Preferred Enemy, and that was clearer than this as with Gets Hot you roll an individual dice before any scatter dice to determine the Gets Hot outcome, Preffered Enemy can be used if a 1 is rolled here.

Your conclusion is correct, but your argument isn't. Blasts weapons never roll to hit, so PEs restriction on 1s isn't relevant.

However in this case you would not roll a 1 as you aren't technically rolling to hit. All I can see in the rule book regarding this is the following:

Blast Weapons and Re-Rolls:

If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast Weapon, the player must re-roll both the Scatter Dice and the 2D6.

I would personally say that PE is useless here. However there may well be something in the rule book thag says otherwise!

Is PE an ability to reroll To Hit? It's an unqualified question, so the answer cannot be "sometimes" - it's either yes it no. And it cannot be no, as the ability does allow you to reroll (some) To Hit rolls. So the answer must be yes. [/w]

Firstly, you've just stated yourself that Blast Weapons "Never Roll To Hit". So the Preffered enemy rule which allows you to re-roll TO HIT and TO WOUND rolls wouldn't come into play here would it. Besides, you can't scatter a roll of a '1'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can somebody who is arguing you CAN re-roll please quote a rule that states this? Instead of just giving your point of view!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warhammer 40K The Rules 7'th:

Blast Weapons:
"When firing a Blast Weapon models do not roll To Hit."

Blast Weapons and Re-Rolls:
"If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast Weapon, the player must re-roll both the Scatter Dice and the 2D6."

Preferred Enemy:
"A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1 if attacking it's Preferred Enemy."

Conclusion: As stated above, a Blast Weapon is not a roll To Hit, so the Preferred Enemy rule would not apply. As for the re-rolls, not only is a Blast not a roll To Hit, the Preferred Enemy does not allow you to re-roll failed hits in general, only rolls of 1.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
According to the rules as written it allows a Reroll, as the rules only ask whether you had the ability to reroll blasts, not how good an ability you hve.

Some posters dispute this, but have no rules backing that stands up to any scrutiny, just assertions.

Nos, would gaining a reroll for blasts vis spirit mark constitute a 'benefit'. Look at the hemlock fighter entry in the Yanden Supplement. It seems to specifically disallow things like preferred enemy to gain the re-roll (except if you wouldn't classify rerolling as a 'benefit').

 RedEyeJedi21 wrote:
Conclusion: As stated above, a Blast Weapon is not a roll To Hit, so the Preferred Enemy rule would not apply. As for the re-rolls, not only is a Blast not a roll To Hit, the Preferred Enemy does not allow you to re-roll failed hits in general, only rolls of 1.

Slight correction, see underlined.
The rule allowing you to re-roll blasts says you must have the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls. It never mentions failed To Hit rolls, that's something you've incorrectly added into your conclusion.

By this conclusion, with the correction added above, no ability is allowed to re-roll with Blasts. Which is a good indication this conclusion is flawed.

I understand exactly what you're saying, I touched on the re-roll as it was mentioned earlier. I am yet to see any evidence to support this argument in favour of re-rolling PE.

However, you've actualt supported my argument there. PE is not a roll To Hit, so how on earth is it flawed?

PE does give a reroll to hit. If you're discounting PE from using that rule how are you allowing anything to use the blasts and rerolls rule? For instance Prescience does that work?

No, if you don't roll a 1, you do not have the ability to reroll. so nothing for blast to work with.


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 grendel083 wrote:

 RedEyeJedi21 wrote:
Conclusion: As stated above, a Blast Weapon is not a roll To Hit, so the Preferred Enemy rule would not apply. As for the re-rolls, not only is a Blast not a roll To Hit, the Preferred Enemy does not allow you to re-roll failed hits in general, only rolls of 1.

Slight correction, see underlined.
The rule allowing you to re-roll blasts says you must have the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls. It never mentions failed To Hit rolls, that's something you've incorrectly added into your conclusion.

By this conclusion, with the correction added above, no ability is allowed to re-roll with Blasts. Which is a good indication this conclusion is flawed.

and you know that to be wrong as you quoted other abilities that work with blasts in a different thread. if nothing else, twin linked definitely, and unarguably, is an ability that works with blasts.

 FlingitNow wrote:
PE does give a reroll to hit. If you're discounting PE from using that rule how are you allowing anything to use the blasts and rerolls rule? For instance Prescience does that work?

Yes that's exactly my point. Does a PE weapon state that you can re-roll ALL failed to hit rolls?

Or does it specifically say ROLLS OF 1?

Still no rules/evidence coming from the guys who are trying to support this argument.

Why does ALL FAILED matter? Why is failed relevant at all?

 RedEyeJedi21 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
PE does give a reroll to hit. If you're discounting PE from using that rule how are you allowing anything to use the blasts and rerolls rule? For instance Prescience does that work?

Yes that's exactly my point. Does a PE weapon state that you can re-roll ALL failed to hit rolls?

Or does it specifically say ROLLS OF 1?

Still no rules/evidence coming from the guys who are trying to support this argument.

You're inserting words in the Blast rules that don't exist.
"If a weapon has the ability to reroll it's rolls To Hit" - unqualified. Meaning one of two things - either you must be able to reroll all rolls to hit, or it doesn't matter how often, as long as you can do it.
The former makes no sense as then only Twin Linked would be able to reroll (since it has it's own rules) and every other ability I've ever seen uses the word "failed" not "all".
Therefore it must be the second one. As I've said, PE does allow rerolls of (some) To Hit rolls.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Why does ALL FAILED matter? Why is failed relevant at all?

Why would you re-roll a non failed hit?

My point is, PE allows you to re-roll a 1, not a failed scatter.

If you are trying to support this would you mind quoting a rule?

What is a failed scatter?

Both Prescience and PE give a reroll to hit. Both have a conditional criteria to trigger that reroll, a criteria that you can not meet with a blast scatter. Those criteria are:

Prescience: reroll FAILED To Hit.
PE: reroll 1s To Hit.

Using the rules below explain why 1 criteria has a different result than the other:

Blast Weapons:
"When firing a Blast Weapon models do not roll To Hit."

Blast Weapons and Re-Rolls:
"If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast Weapon, the player must re-roll both the Scatter Dice and the 2D6."

Preferred Enemy:
"A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1 if attacking it's Preferred Enemy."

 RedEyeJedi21 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Why does ALL FAILED matter? Why is failed relevant at all?

Why would you re-roll a non failed hit?

My point is, PE allows you to re-roll a 1, not a failed scatter.

If you are trying to support this would you mind quoting a rule?

The rules have been quoted.
And you're the one inserting the word "failed" - the blast rule doesn't have it.
Answer this with a yes or no:
Does Preferred Enemy allow rerolls of a weapon's To Hit?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
According to the rules as written it allows a Reroll, as the rules only ask whether you had the ability to reroll blasts, not how good an ability you hve.

Some posters dispute this, but have no rules backing that stands up to any scrutiny, just assertions.

You mean the Preferred enemy rule, that only allows re-rolls of 1 (when rolling To Hit)?
The RaW is below:
You only have the ability to Re-roll, once you've rolled a 1. (PE)
You only have the ability to Re-roll, once you've failed To Hit. (Prescience)

I will not give any more arguments as the above is just RaW from these two rules.

I'll leave it as agree to disagree, as this debate has been covered enough times already.

 BlackTalos wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
According to the rules as written it allows a Reroll, as the rules only ask whether you had the ability to reroll blasts, not how good an ability you hve.

Some posters dispute this, but have no rules backing that stands up to any scrutiny, just assertions.

You mean the Preferred enemy rule, that only allows re-rolls of 1 (when rolling To Hit)?
The RaW is below:
You only have the ability to Re-roll, once you've rolled a 1. (PE)
You only have the ability to Re-roll, once you've failed To Hit. (Prescience)

I will not give any more arguments as the above is just RaW from these two rules.

I'll leave it as agree to disagree, as this debate has been covered enough times already.

Precisely. As far as Blasts go Prescience and PE are both equally powerful rerolls.

Yet again, why are people talking about Prescience? Did the OP mention prescience?

It's a simple question, does a scatter dice roll a 1 to hit? No.

So how could PE work here?

 RedEyeJedi21 wrote:
Yet again, why are people talking about Prescience? Did the OP mention prescience?

Because your argument makes the Blasts and Rerolls rule irrelevant. Using your argument, a reroll ability would have to be able to reroll any To Hit roll, not just failed ones. There aren't any of those. Twin Linked would be allowed because it has it's own rules.

It's a simple question, does a scatter dice roll a 1 to hit? No.

So how could PE work here?

So you're deliberately not reading posts and answering questions therein? Cool. I'll wait until you do.

Does the model have the ability to Reroll its hit? Yes. Absolutely.

Please find where the rules state you have to have rolled To hit. Page and graph.

 RedEyeJedi21 wrote:
Yet again, why are people talking about Prescience? Did the OP mention prescience?

It's a simple question, does a scatter dice roll a 1 to hit? No.

So how could PE work here?

We mention Prescience because it illustrates the point. Your refusal to actually discuss the points raised perfectly illustrates that you are not interested in discussing the rules and that you know our interpretation is correct. If you do not wish to discuss the rules why are you even posting on the YMDC forum?

 BlackTalos wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
According to the rules as written it allows a Reroll, as the rules only ask whether you had the ability to reroll blasts, not how good an ability you hve.

Some posters dispute this, but have no rules backing that stands up to any scrutiny, just assertions.

You mean the Preferred enemy rule, that only allows re-rolls of 1 (when rolling To Hit)?
The RaW is below:
You only have the ability to Re-roll, once you've rolled a 1. (PE)
You only have the ability to Re-roll, once you've failed To Hit. (Prescience)

I will not give any more arguments as the above is just RaW from these two rules.

I'll leave it as agree to disagree, as this debate has been covered enough times already.

That isn't raw that is your interpretation of the rule. RAW of the rule Preferred enemy is "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1 if attacking its Preferred Enemy. This applies both to shooting and close combat attacks." If a unit has Preferred Enemy they always have the ability for a re-roll but when they get to re-roll is restricted.

Is there anybody out there with an actual rule snippet that states clearly that the Preffered Enemy rule 'which allows re-rolls of ONE' can allow a scatter roll to be re-rolled?

Every single one of you is STILL arguing with no evidence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You have the ability to re-roll when the 1 is rolled, as somebody stated above.

Yes we've quoted it many times. Here you go again:

Blast Weapons:
"When firing a Blast Weapon models do not roll To Hit."

Blast Weapons and Re-Rolls:
"If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast Weapon, the player must re-roll both the Scatter Dice and the 2D6."

Preferred Enemy:
"A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1 if attacking it's Preferred Enemy."

Still failing to actually argue against points raised I see. So again why post on YMDC when you aren't interested in discussing the rules?