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I'm interested in hearing what people use for house rules in DZC. Played 3 games so far with the starter set, interested enough to add a few units to each side. However, I do think some house rules are in order, given that I'm mostly playing vs. my brother and we are flames of war and 40K players. I'm thinking of a few and I wonder if others have experience with similar ones.

1) Leaving wrecks on the table. More terrain is good, though there might be shenanigans.
2) The "all transports are are dedicated" thing doesn't thrill me. "Realism" aside it means that your army will feature huge numbers of transport models (relatively) and once a unit loses its transport all mobility is lost (at least for UMC). The end of the game also often features dropships wandering around the board with nothing to transport. I don't see why you couldn't simply use a rule similar to Shaltari gates and say that you can activate a transport in addition to any ground battle group, or 3 transports as a battle group.
3) Maybe some alternative deployment methods you can buy - deep strike, outflank, infiltrate, etc.
4) Don't love the FOC set up.

1) Leaving wrecks on the table. More terrain is good, though there might be shenanigans.

A lot of people do this already. Put little puffs of cotton balls on top and watch the carnage pile up!

2) The "all transports are are dedicated" thing doesn't thrill me. "Realism" aside it means that your army will feature huge numbers of transport models (relatively) and once a unit loses its transport all mobility is lost (at least for UMC). The end of the game also often features dropships wandering around the board with nothing to transport. I don't see why you couldn't simply use a rule similar to Shaltari gates and say that you can activate a transport in addition to any ground battle group, or 3 transports as a battle group.

It seems silly, but it cuts down on shenanigans and reduces book-keeping. Especially if you start trying to pick up cross-battlegroup. If you want that ability you would need a modified dropship rule-set more akin to Shaltari gates. I also find that, barring a few exceptions, seeing entire squads wiped in larger games is not the norm. Ground units tend to be harder than their aircraft counterparts and often to flee in their dropships to better positions when faced with an opponent that clearly out-matches them.

Then again that could just be my local meta.

3) Maybe some alternative deployment methods you can buy - deep strike, outflank, infiltrate, etc.

-While deep strike would be neat.. I kind of wince at the thought of scattering a drop-ship full of guys into LoS of AA or on top of a building. In a game of precision movement it would be highly risky, but give it a shot! Also, the Resistance drill already deploys like a 40k deep-strike.

-Outflank is an interesting idea, but I would absolutely require a dropship for doing so. With how mobile armies are in DZC I just do not see a belly dragging unit catching an opponent unawares. You would also need to restrict it heavily. Maybe only for scouts?

-Infiltrate for scouts I see no issue with. Maybe a pre-game movement which allows you to deploy them before the game even starts.

4) Don't love the FOC set up.

I disagree with you on this one. DZC list building looks complicated, but is actually quite simple while maintaining a ton of flexibility and keeping things balanced.

 Nightwolf829 wrote:

1) Leaving wrecks on the table. More terrain is good, though there might be shenanigans.

A lot of people do this already. Put little puffs of cotton balls on top and watch the carnage pile up!

2) The "all transports are are dedicated" thing doesn't thrill me. "Realism" aside it means that your army will feature huge numbers of transport models (relatively) and once a unit loses its transport all mobility is lost (at least for UMC). The end of the game also often features dropships wandering around the board with nothing to transport. I don't see why you couldn't simply use a rule similar to Shaltari gates and say that you can activate a transport in addition to any ground battle group, or 3 transports as a battle group.

It seems silly, but it cuts down on shenanigans and reduces book-keeping. Especially if you start trying to pick up cross-battlegroup. If you want that ability you would need a modified dropship rule-set more akin to Shaltari gates. I also find that, barring a few exceptions, seeing entire squads wiped in larger games is not the norm. Ground units tend to be harder than their aircraft counterparts and often to flee in their dropships to better positions when faced with an opponent that clearly out-matches them.

Then again that could just be my local meta.

3) Maybe some alternative deployment methods you can buy - deep strike, outflank, infiltrate, etc.

-While deep strike would be neat.. I kind of wince at the thought of scattering a drop-ship full of guys into LoS of AA or on top of a building. In a game of precision movement it would be highly risky, but give it a shot! Also, the Resistance drill already deploys like a 40k deep-strike.

-Outflank is an interesting idea, but I would absolutely require a dropship for doing so. With how mobile armies are in DZC I just do not see a belly dragging unit catching an opponent unawares. You would also need to restrict it heavily. Maybe only for scouts?

-Infiltrate for scouts I see no issue with. Maybe a pre-game movement which allows you to deploy them before the game even starts.

4) Don't love the FOC set up.

I disagree with you on this one. DZC list building looks complicated, but is actually quite simple while maintaining a ton of flexibility and keeping things balanced.

DITTO

In regards to list-building, try the FFoR app. I'm new to the game as well and messing around with the program makes it very simple and is a fun way to see what you should buy next.

My first game of DZC we played with wrecks remaining on the table by mistake.

It made the game look like a bloodbath, and made the articulated rule on my Sabres and Rapier a lot more useful.

I wouldn't say no to playing that way again.

One houserule we use at the club, is at the end of every turn you can discard a Command Card from your hand (revealing it to your opponent as you do so).

I was really surprised there wasn't a similar rule in the game.

- Is there a command card mulligan rule too? We might have considered doing that once.

In saying that, we're all newbies to the game at the club.

Is there a command card mulligan rule too? We might have considered doing that once.

Step 2 in the Initiation phase of the turn. You can discard any number of unwanted command cards before drawing back up to a full hand size. So yes.

2) The "all transports are are dedicated" thing doesn't thrill me. "Realism" aside it means that your army will feature huge numbers of transport models (relatively) and once a unit loses its transport all mobility is lost (at least for UMC). The end of the game also often features dropships wandering around the board with nothing to transport. I don't see why you couldn't simply use a rule similar to Shaltari gates and say that you can activate a transport in addition to any ground battle group, or 3 transports as a battle group.

Whe your transports are of no use in the latter part of the game you are using them the wrong way. Nearly all transports have a second operation mode on the battlefield.

3) Maybe some alternative deployment methods you can buy - deep strike, outflank, infiltrate, etc.

Some of it is already in the scenarios and the Resistance also makes use of some of this. To a certain degree command cards do this too.

 Nightwolf829 wrote:

Step 2 in the Initiation phase of the turn. You can discard any number of unwanted command cards before drawing back up to a full hand size. So yes.

Silly us were looking for that rule in the command cards section, as opposed to the initiation section.

I wonder what the other major fundamental rules we've missed are.

While we dont house rule, I think the one rule of shooting through your own guys we forget doing. also forget doing the hull down cover rule for other vehicles.

Also by nature if my 6 tanks shoot at your squad, get 5 hits then do 4 damage, thats 4 tanks the opponent removes. We dont allociate shots on each guy in a unit. Makes play fast. None of these house rules, just forgetting really.

On the comment of the FOC, DL the free army builder they give you. Super easy on making an army in it

Full air mobility
This article predates the resistance faction, which would not use these rules as they deploy from airdrop or underground.

Drive on makes a lot of sense for many factions and is standard for some units. I think this is a problem that needs addressing properly. Dropzone Commander is all about dropzones or it would be called Drivezone Commander. Frankly it would be better if the game formally rewarded full transportation somehow. There is a way forward and it fits the game world background, bear with me on this while I explain comprehensively:

The idea and background concept.

I spoke to Dave about this at Salute, I recommended that he introduce an 'orbital incursion' rule. The idea is that if every unit in the list that can have air transport has some then the army may enter via orbital drop. If any of the units is a drive on asset then it is assumed it has dropped off board or was deployable off board (as confirmed by Dave). However this means the army has already deployed from space and thus cannot gain 'orbital incursion'.
So that established what would 'orbital incursion' rule do. It would enable the entire army to enter the map at high speed while still breaking from the orbital approach this means that slow transports suddenly become very fast transports, in fact all would be equally fast.
While having an Albatross have equal speed to a Raven doesn't sound like it makes sense we must remember that all the dropships are orbital craft and will over time be able to reach orbital velocities though probably only flying at hypersonic speeds once the atmosphere is left as I am sure underwing stores of tanks cause a lot of drag.
However a decent move on the battlefield, say 24" is not beyond any dropship, however heavy dropships only achieve this by breaking later and once that speed is bled away cannot be regained while flying about at low altitude.
So an Albatross will say move in at high subsonic speeds alongside the Ravens as it approaches the lower atmosphere then bleeds off its speed until you get the speeds seen in DZC. However if the speed is bled off late the Albatross can have a one shot performance boost. The caveat is that its not very agile and furthermore it must bleed off down to combat speed before it can maneuver so it cannot land immediately (thats called crashing) or go To The Deck (that will also involve crashing) while still decelerating from orbit.

Now if part of the force is drive on then part of the army has already landed this means the orbital drop has already occurred and the dropships must enter play at normal speeds. You cannot have single dropships come on from orbit because the entire force needs to deploy in one mass. Orbital incursion is dangerous, unless adequately escorted any long dropship or small force is just prey to fighters especially lone heavy dropships, the prime beneficiaries of this rule.

Shaltari don't use dropships and don't have a concept of orbital incursion as any number of gates can over time teleport about any size of force excepting limits only for gate fineness.

The recommended rules.

1. Any force using dropships as transport may elect to make an orbital incursion if each and every unit with option to take dropship transport is provided with one. If any single unit has no dropship, even if it can fly by itself, then the army is not permitted to benefit from the rule for orbital incursion.
Shaltari never benefit from orbital incursion.

2. Any dropship entering play in an army eligible for orbital incursion gains the following rules for the first turn only:
- No medium of heavy dropship entering play may allow passengers to disembark this turn.
- Any dropship may increase its speed to 24" regardless of its normal movement limit.
- If any dropship exceeds its normal speed limit then it may not use To The Deck rules (it's going too fast to maneuver), also if shot down during this turn roll twice on the Destroyed Aircraft Table and apply the highest result.


The result.

I think this will sort out a lot of problems, currently there are too many units for which there is no need to provide transportation either transportation serves little purpose (e.g Wolverine, Ferrum, Enyo, Scimitar, Hyperion) and in some cases is actually as liability (e.g. Kodiak, Taranis) deal lists provide full transportation for them. Those who make the investment of full transportation deserve to be rewarded in the rules for their dedication, a Kodiak ought to have its own Condor on standby if the commander is of any value, the army deals provides one, yet in play 99% of Kodiaks are drive ons to save points and prevent harassment from interceptors that get into play with lucky sixes on turn one. Consequently there is little actual reason to provide one and direct advantages, other than cost in not doing so.
These are just examples, many many units find the cost of transport upgrade to not be a good investment or of marginal value. A Ferrum gets to move on 8" on the first turn rather than 1". Fair enough, but is that worth an extra 66pts? Likely not.
I spoke to Dave about this idea at Salute and he hinted that he had been looking at something similar for special characters. Frankly I think thats a mistake, a high speed entry is a standard option for an army entirely dropship mobile. If Lt Gorman from Aliens can lead a fast orbital drop unit it will not require special heroes with overtones of 'Creeeeeed Tactical Genius'.
It will be nice to see special characters and army wide special rules but full transportation deserves an advantage of its own. This one will not hurt the game, while an Albatross or Poseidon being on mid board on turn one after a 24" move looks disconcerting and sound 'broken' remember that it cannot land, or hide, so yes you can drop large formations well into the opponents half of the board, but they can't fire until turn three, you have to want to do it.

Eh, I'd be iffy on using orbital incursion with my UCM (my guns are usually long enough range so getting dropped 9" up the board from a condor is enough), and the penalties from potentially getting shot down by the guy who DID walk on are a bit rough.

Plus my Ferrum and Kodiak only move from the board edge if they are claiming a focal point, so I'd be looking at a 100 pt penalty to do it.

Scourge and maybe PHR would love it though.

I probably should focus on playing more games (and different scenarios), but I like the orbital incursion rule. The first turn is pretty dull so far playing with the starter set. I'd like units to be able to get deeper in to play sooner to create a more jumbled battlefield. For an air drop game, it seems to be kind of static with the two sides flying at each other.

6 turns also seems really short, given the "no transport and fire" rule. It means you're only going to make 1 or 2 repositions it seems like. An infantry unit doesn't seem able to capture more than one building.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hitting the enemy back field takes like 3 turns. 40K rhinos can be hitting deep on turn 2, given that the troops can attack when t hey jump out. I'd rather see mobility more restricted by anti air.

While I agree that it's hard to hit the enemy backfield, taking some fast movers / air units can do this well (although in that case they'll usually keep some anti-air near their backline, too, but you might be able to bait it to shoot at something else).

I have trouble with this with Shaltari, and also trouble with mobility as I tend to play warstrider-heavy. However, I've seen that better players actually do use their dropships and mobility more - it can be well worth sacrificing a turn of shooting to do so. It's counter-intuitive to me, but it's particularly useful when going for scenarios. I often kill more of my opponents models and lose, because they win on scenario.

Just got my DzC Shaltari back from being painted so I am really looking forward to playing it again

nobody wrote:
Eh, I'd be iffy on using orbital incursion with my UCM (my guns are usually long enough range so getting dropped 9" up the board from a condor is enough), and the penalties from potentially getting shot down by the guy who DID walk on are a bit rough.

I take that as meaning its dfairly balanced with pros nd cos rather than an autoinclude.

nobody wrote:

Plus my Ferrum and Kodiak only move from the board edge if they are claiming a focal point, so I'd be looking at a 100 pt penalty to do it.

Transporting a Kodiak on is a small price to pay for the advantage,
As for the Ferrum, that is a deal breaker, but then if the benefits of orbital incursion make you not want to take the Ferrum in every battle for every mission (like the proverbial Eldrad meme) then that must be a good thing. Must haves in lists are evidence of poor games balance. DZC has remarkably few of those.

nobody wrote:

Scourge and maybe PHR would love it though.

PHR would love it yes, but its not automatic with them either. Scourge can also benefit because of their short range, however drive on Hunters are quite common, Scourge can make do with drive on lists, for anythign except infantry. Perhaps this is why Scourge have the best dropship guns, to make dropships worth taking.